Re: VMS -- Botany (f28v) Cocoxochitil

[Dana Scott <dfscott@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello John,
   Yes, I agree that the leaves in f51r seem to match well with the Christmas
cactus. Actually, this was one of the first things that caught my eye when
investigating f51r, but are reasons why it doesn't seem to work. The type of
leaf you are referring to is called a Phylloclade leaf. In fact it is not a leaf

at all. It is a modification to the plant stem which has been flattened and is
photosynthetic. Also, phylloclades are often 'jointed' and connected one to the
next. The plant in f51r shows separate, distinct leaves. The stems are distinct
and stand apart from the leaves in f51r.

Phylloclade:
Hello John,
   Yes, I agree that the leaves in f51r seem to match well with the Christmas
cactus. Actually, this was one of the first things that caught my eye when
investigating f51r, but are reasons why it doesn't seem to work. The type of
leaf you are referring to is called a Phylloclade leaf. In fact it is not a leaf

at all. It is a modification to the plant stem which has been flattened and is
photosynthetic. Also, phylloclades are often 'jointed' and connected one to the
next. The plant in f51r shows separate, distinct leaves. The stems are distinct
and stand apart from the leaves in f51r. I will keep in mind the A and B lists
that you developed as more plants are identified. Thank you for your feedback.

Regards,
Dana

Phylloclade:
http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/generalbotany/typesofshoots/cladode/index.html

http://glossary.gardenweb.com/glossary/phylloclade.html



John Grove wrote:

> Hi Dana,
>
> Since you're in the western hemisphere herbals now, check
> f51r against the christmas cactus once again - I think the leaves are quite
> a surprising match.
>
> I also have to ask again for some kind of distinguishing feature between
> those two columns I sent you before -- They were based on the A and B
> languages, and if you could come close to proposing that all B herbals were
> unique by hemisphere all the better - of course this is setting a bias into
> your mind to look for matches in plant form based on the language of the
> page...
>
> John.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dana Scott" <dfscott@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <voynich@xxxxxxxx>; <AFScott@xxxxxxx>
> Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 3:47 AM
> Subject: VMS -- Botany (f28v) Cocoxochitil
>
> > I am quite confident that the VMS plant drawing (with radiant sun
> > flower) in f28v represents Dahlia (probably D. imperialis). This
> > particular Dahlia flower shape is referred to as Semi-Cactus Dahlia. In
> > some locations Dahlia is referred to as Georgina. Dahlia was named after
> > the Swedish Botanist Andreas Dahl (1751-1789), a student under Linnaeus.
> >
> > Snowbound:
> > http://www.aplacetoremember.com/MyDahlia/Snowboun.jpg
> >
> > Dahlia imperialis (Roezl)
> > http://www.dipbot.unict.it/orto/1089-1.html
> >
> > This flower is indiginous to Mexico which dates the VMS from 1492. It is
> > the national flower of Mexico and the city flower of San Francisco. It
> > was known to the Aztecs as Cocoxochitil which means 'water pipes'. The
> > stems are hollow (up to 3 inches in diameter) and were used to carry
> > water. It is believed that Aztec medicinal uses included "treatment of
> > uninary disorder" and epilepsy. I hope this identification won't turn
> > into a Mexican standoff. Please don't shoot the messenger. There is a
> > considerable amount of information here and the implications may be
> > substantial. With this identification I am no prepared to pursue a full
> > examination of Western Hemisphere plants as a possible source for the
> > herbal drawings in the VMS.
> >
> > Dahlia Story: (60 years after Columbus)
> > http://www.sfheart.com/dahlia.html
> > http://www.botanyworld.com/dahlia.html
> > http://www.herbalremedies-e.com/herbs-d/dahlia.html
> > http://www.dahlia.org/basic1.html
> > http://www.arcadian-archives.com/dahlia.htm
> > http://www.discoveredmonton.com/devonian/getgro27.html
> > http://www.flowermonthclub.com/history.htm
> > http://www.cavicchio.com/catalog/dahlia.htm
> > http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Spring/Detail/04724.html
> >
> > Badianus Manuscript 1582, Aztec Herbal, 1st record
> > http://www.uapress.arizona.edu/online.bks/prophet/biblio.htm
> >
> > Additional Photos of hybrids:
> >
> > All Triumph: (Notice the hint of an S shaped slit at the center of the
> > flower similar to center of f28v)
> > http://montereybaynsy.com/D/dahlia%20all%20triumph1.jpg
> >
> > Baron Evan:
> > http://www.aplacetoremember.com/MyDahlia/baronevan.jpg
> >
> > Penn's Gift:
> > http://www.gladiola.com/Dahlia/pennsgift.jpg
> >
> > Hamari Gold:
> >
> http://communities.msn.ca/PacificRimDahliaClub/kuiperspix.msnw?action=ShowPh
> oto&PhotoID=107
> >
> > Wanda's Capella:
> > http://www.dahlianet.org/images/NCDS99/CourtOfHonor/Wanda'sCapella.jpg
> >
> > Bonaventure:
> > http://elkhorngardens.com/bonaventure2.jpg
> >
> > Mingus Wesley:
> > http://www.aplacetoremember.com/MyDahlia/MingWes.jpg
> >
> > Sir Alf Ramsey:
> > http://www.aplacetoremember.com/MyDahlia/siralframsey.jpg
> >
> > Almond Delight:
> > http://www.elkhorngardens.com/AlmondDelight.jpg
> >
> > Takachilo:
> > http://sddelorm.free.fr/potager/dahlias/laurent/dahlia1.jpg
> >
> > Maisey Mooney:
> > http://elkhorngardens.com/MaiseyMooney.jpg
> >
> > Munchen:
> > http://montereybaynsy.com/D/dahlia%20munchen1.jpg
> >
> > Dahlia:
> > http://www.graficimages.com/2589%20Dahlia.JPG
> >
> > Happy Face: (Dahlia hybrid)
> > http://montereybaynsy.com/D/dahlia%20happy%20face1.jpg
> >
> > Ornamental Plants at Ogongo (Namibia)
> > http://www.unam.na/1710/Ornament.htm
> > http://www.unam.na/1710/Dahlia_4.jpg
> >
> > Nice Personal Dahlia Website:
> > http://www.susansgardenpatch.com/indahlia.htm
> >
> > Aztec Herbals:
> > http://www.tobacco.org/History/aztecs.html
> > http://unimaxsupply.com/books/nativecamer/1aztecherb.htm
> >
> > Dried Leaves: (Notice paired leaves around stem)
> >
> http://solandra.botany.utexas.edu/tribehelianthe/Dahlia%20cardiophylla%20001
> 36971.JPG
> >
> > Dahlia imperialis:
> >
> http://solandra.botany.utexas.edu/tribehelianthe/Dahlia%20imperialis%2000136
> 800.JPG
> >
> > Illustration:
> > http://www.bankstowncrafts.com.au/images/Dahlia_s.jpg
> > http://www.trimbelleriver.com/stencils/stencllg/full%20dahlia.jpg
> >
> > Tubers:
> > http://www.dahlias.net/dahwebpg/TuberStor/TuberStor4.htm
> >
> > Dahlia pinnata: (Central Twist)
> > http://plantsdatabase.com/showimage/967/index.html
> >
> > Close-up:
> > http://bstorage.com/wksphoto/Dahlia2K/PIX/1657IMG0054.jpg
> >
> > Mexican Ethnobotany:
> > http://mahogany.lib.utexas.edu/Libs/Benson/bibnot/bn-92.html
> >
> > Bernardino Sahagún: (Franciscan, Spanish missionary in Mexico)
> > http://www.finns-books.com/florent.htm
> > http://archaeology.la.asu.edu/tm/pages2/mtm09.htm
> > http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13325a.htm
> > http://www.phil.uni-sb.de/fr/romanistik/span/sahagun.html
> > http://www.fundacionpaz.org.mx/calendario/2000_junio_sahagun.html
> > http://www.redesc.ilce.edu.mx/redescolar/efemerides/febrero/conme5.htm
> >
> http://www.canalsocial.com/biografia/religionteologia/bernardinosahagun.htm
> >
> > http://www.mlab.uiah.fi/simultaneous/Text/bio_sahagun.html
> >
> > Perfume Bottle:
> > http://pjdesigns.com/pj/images/daum-dahlia-pb.jpg
> >
> > VMS Scribe would have been pleased by this flower:
> > http://bstorage.com/wksphoto/dahlia/thumb/IMG_7343.jpg
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dana Scott
> >