VMs: VMs IS NOT Welsh

[Bernd Neuner <bernd.neuner@xxxxxx>]

I would just like to add one remark to the objections already submitted by
others against interpreting the VMS groups as words (of any language):

The results of the paper recently mentioned by Rene (Akinori Ito, Observation of left and
right entropy in Voynich MS) clearly exclude that possibility (IMHO). Though my knowledge
of Welsh is rather shallow, I would expect that every Welsh word would - as in other
European languages - influence its immediate surroundings, that is, increase/decrease
the probability of being preceded/followed by certain other words.

Example: Verbs tend to be follwed rather by non verbs.

The Ito paper points out that this is not the case in the VMS. In other words: the
left/right word entropies suggest that the VMS symbol groups are virtually 
context-independent.

Am I missing something?

Best regards,

Bernd


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Title: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx schrieb am 24.01.03 12:30:34

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht wurde als Attachment angehängt.-----

Von:	vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Gesendet:	24.01.03 12:30:34
An:	"Bernd Neuner" <bernd.neuner@xxxxxx>
Betreff:	Re: VMs: RE: VMs IS Welsh

Hi all,

 

I don't think we can really assume that the VMS 'words' correspond to plaintext words in general. My reasoning for this is the observation that such a high proportion of VMS 'words' contain a gallows character and yet virtually none contains more than one. To me this implies that there is not a one-to-one correspondence between VMS symbols and 'normal' letters, so either some symbols are nulls, or the encryption uses different systems in different parts of a 'word', or some such scheme. Given that the author went to those kind of lengths, I think it likely that plaintext word breaks would not be reflected in the VMS text.

 

FWIW I imagine the plaintext having been grouped into sequences of, say, 4 letters which were then converted into VMS 'words' using some yet-to-be-determined scheme, probably changing the encryption method depending on factors such as position in a sequence, previous/next letter, or something. And converting some input characters into multiple output symbols to vary the VMS 'word' length, maybe sprinkling some nulls in for good measure.

 

Of course this will make it very hard, if not impossible, to decipher - but that only makes me more determined to try!

 

Cheers,

Jon (not John) Grove.

-----Original Message-----
From: GC [mailto:glenclaston@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: 24 January 2003 03:01
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: VMs: RE: Re: VMs IS Welsh

I find myself in rare agreement with someone else.... that the text, if not based on Welsh, will be found at least to have a very strong Welsh influence.   I do not however believe that any of the text in the VMS can be translated directly from the script to intelligible text - quite simply put, without first deciphering it.

 

Any arguments as to word length are to me no argument at all.  Simply peruse volume after volume of old English text to find that spelling and variation is the wonderful charm of that language.  I wonder if such a wide array of spelling variations were available in the latin text?  I have transcribed all of Francis Bacon's latin books, and at least by 1623 the spellings were quite standard, although some variation in English still remained.

 

A word list to consider:

 

take, tak, taik, took, tok, toke, hand, hande, etc.  illgotten, illgotn, ill-goten, ill-gotten, il-goten, etc.

 

With all these variations, especially by certain authors, it does not surprise me that there are so many short words and extremely few long ones.

 

GC

 

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Larry Roux
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2003 6:57 AM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: VMs: Re: VMs IS Welsh

Old Welsh does have some similarities to the letter patterns (ie double consonants in weird places, essentially the same word with an additional letter thrown in, etc).  However, unless I am mistaken I don't remember Welsh texts having so many words that end with the same character (ie the extensive number of words that end in Voyichnese (o, and y))

 

It would be interesting to see what you have come up with.

 

******************************
Larry Roux
Syracuse University
lroux@xxxxxxx
*******************************

>>> adam.sparshott@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx 01/22/03 03:40AM >>>
Very Interesting.

I would love to see something further on this.
Does Jim Reeds still have the documents and can they be scanned?

Regards

Adam


>===== Original Message From MrTim1000@xxxxxxx =====
>Oops! Sorry, accidently sent it before fully typed.
> Hi!
> This is in response to G. Landini's  statement in Re: VMs:Random Text
>Generation: "Try to prove that vms was written in Welsh"
>
>IT IS!
>
> I did research into the VMs over 8 years ago, using Welsh as a basis of
>attack on the underlying language of the manuscript, and was able to
>translate a fair amount of words on two (short) pages (over 10% actually).
>Copies of my findings were sent to Yale, and also to Jim Reeds.
> Unfortunately, further translations are beyond my means at this time, mainly
>due to not having access to comprehensive glossaries of Early Welsh. (Most of
>the words in the VMs no longer 'exist' in current usage.)
> If you want proof, it will take some time, as I will have to update my
>findings to electronic media. (Or have Reeds fax you the copy I sent him.  If
>he still has it...)
>
>T.E.Ackerson

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