Re: VMs: Ryland 228

["DANA SCOTT" <dscott520@xxxxxxx>]

Precisely, very nicely stated.

Regards,
Dana Scott


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Rugg" <g.rugg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2003 3:16 AM
Subject: Re: VMs: Ryland 228


> Dear Dana,
>
> I agree that as an intellectual challenge, a mystery, and a work of art,
the VMS
> is self-sufficient. For what it's worth, I think that the manuscript is
probably
> a hoax, but a beautifully elegant one, and I'd still admire it even if
someone
> produced irrefutable proof that it was a hoax (setting aside the question
of
> whether a hoax could ever be irrefutably proven, which I doubt).
>
> At another level, the question has some far-reaching implications.
> If the VMS is a genuine coded document, with significant content, then it
may be
> an example of a radically different approach to cryptography, with
far-reaching
> implications for cryptography and related fields. There are a few examples
of
> ancient inventions which were centuries ahead of their time, such as the
> Antikythera device, and the VMS may be another example.
> If it is a genuine non-encoded natural language, then it is a significant
find
> for linguists, because it has so many features not found in currently
known
> languages.
> If it is a hoax, then someone found a way of hoaxing very complex-looking
> linguistic structures which we can't exactly reproduce even with current
> technology.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Gordon
>
> DANA SCOTT wrote:
>
> > Yes, but who cares whether or not it is a hoax? Is that important? If it
is
> > a hoax is it merely as an empty treasure chest or, if authentic, as a
coffer
> > full of gold? Is the value of the VMS whether or not it is identified as
a
> > hoax or has it stood fast the test of time and therefore become more
that a
> > complex knot to be severed in twain at the stroke of the sword? I for
one,
> > relish the pursuit and treasure the knowledge gained through experience.
The
> > end game may bring a sigh of relief at its final resolution, but will
the
> > discovery of the ultimate truth but lead us into a new realm of
discovery?
> > Search on ye explorers for the truth for there are still not doubt
wonder
> > gems of discover still to be uncovered.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Dana Scott
> > :-)
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Gordon Rugg" <g.rugg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Monday, May 19, 2003 2:11 AM
> > Subject: Re: VMs: Ryland 228
> >
> > > Hmmm..... There are many theories which fit some of the evidence. The
> > > challenge is to find evidence which gives us good reason to eliminate
> > > possibilities and therefore to reduce the problem space down to one
> > > sensible explanation.
> > >
> > > There are a lot of features of Voynichese which are inconsistent with
the
> > > VMS being in an exotic, non-encoded, natural language. If it's a code,
> > > then it's resisted decipherment for much longer than any other code of
the
> > > same period. The third main possibility is that it's a hoax.
> > >
> > > The hoax explanation has tended to be dismissed as requiring too much
> > > complexity and time. However, apart from the mechanism for producing
> > > Voynichese itself, every other alleged indication of complexity in the
> > > manuscript itself can be produced quite easily and quickly using
> > > fifteenth/sixteenth century methods. The overall planning could have
been
> > > done in a couple of weeks, including labels with cross-references
between
> > > sections; the transcription and illustration could have been done in
two
> > > or three months.
> > >
> > > I think that the issue of who might have hoaxed it is a side-issue;
the
> > > key question is what type of evidence would either disprove the hoax
> > > hypothesis, or show that it is the most reasonable explanation for the
> > > VMS.
> > >
> > > Best wishes,
> > >
> > > Gordon
> > >
> > > GC wrote:
> > >
> > > > Nick wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I think Rafal Prinke is totally correct to strongly
> > > > > question the
> > > > > Dee-centric view of VMS' history - many of the supposed
> > > > > pieces of evidence
> > > > > don't quite "stack up":-
> > > > >
> > > > >          http://hum.amu.edu.pl/~rafalp/HERM/VMS/dee.htm#9
> > > > >
> > > > > Having said that... I do think the quire-marks are
> > > > > Dee's, and the foliation
> > > > > is Kelly's: but this doesn't mean I think the "600/630
> > > > > ducats" evidence
> > > > > links the sale with Dee.
> > > >
> > > > Of course there's always that *third* option that the manuscript
> > > > was from an English source?  Dee bought several books from
> > > > dissolved monasteries in England, and if indeed the VMS were ever
> > > > in his hands, this would be a much simpler explanation of how he
> > > > obtained it.  Even simpler, if it was written by Ascham, then
> > > > Roger would have obtained it after Anthony's death, a much more
> > > > direct line of transference from author to Dee? :-)  Theories do
> > > > indeed abound!
> > > >
> > > > GC
> > > >
> > > >
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