Re: VMs: Viola tricolor

[William Edmondson <w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi

No mine is not any commercial variety - wild and commonplace.

The flowers on mine are mostly like those on the left of the 
illustration and occasionally like those on the right (but not the top). 
Interestingly, that image shows different flower colour patterns, not 
what you'd see on any one plant.
Other comments below;

Jorge Stolfi wrote:

> William, perhaps you looked at a commercial garden variety.
>
> This is the image I had in mind:
>
>  http://www.lysator.liu.se/runeberg/nordflor/pics/227.jpg
>  http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~stolfi/voynich/misc/f9v.jpg
>
> Considering the limitations of the VMS artist, the match seems pretty 
> good to me:
>
>  - Leaves change shape from base to top (a rare feature).
not that uncommon

>  - Top leaves have very characteristic "lobelets".
No the don't.  The leaves have petioles and are lanceolate.  The nodal 
'leaflets'  have lobes.

>  - Lobed leaves are attached directly to the stem, without stalk.
As above

>  - Sometimes a lobed and an unlobed leaf are attached to the same point.
Pretty much always - that is what the node is all about - it is where 
the leaf and the flower stem spring from.

>  - Stem is thicker in the middle than at the ends.
Maybe - I'll have to check in daylight.

>  - Flowers are placed singly at the end of long stems.
And those stems don't have leaves.

>  - Flowers have four small side petals and a larger central one.
>  - The largest petal is almost heart shaped.
>  - Sepals are narrow triangles and their tips show up between the petals.
>  - Modest multiple roots emanating from a short central stem.
>  - No tubers.
>  
> The most significant differences that I can see are that, in the
> modern pic, the leaves at the very bottom are rounded; whereas the
> bottom leaves of f9v are still spear-shaped, like the middle ones of
> the modern pic. Also, in f9v the flower stalks are attached at the
> very tip of the branches, rather than just below the tip.  And, of course,
> the flowers are upside-down.

No - you missed that the flower stems don't have leaves.

> The two flowers at the bottom are rather unlike those at the top and 
> those of the modern pic, but perhaps the author was trying to draw them
> as seen from the side -- and obvously he was not very well versed in the
> art of perspective.
>
> So I still think that the match is as good as we could hope it to be.
>
> All the best,
>
> --stolfi
>
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>  

All this seems to have stirred up a storm - not intended.

Misidentification could lead to poisoning - badly drawn plants could 
lead to misidentification - that was all I meant.

I still haven't seen a good argument/explanation as to why/how poor 
representations of well-known herbs/medicinals could be useful.  

I'll have to log on to a different server to find a good image of a 15th 
C Viola - I'm sure one exists.

Cheers

William

--
Dr William H Edmondson
School of Computer Science
University of Birmingham
Edgbaston B15 2TT
United Kingdom

Voice  -  +44-121-414-4763
email  -  w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxx



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