Re: Re: VMs: Another method different from Cardano Grilles

["jan" <hurychj@xxxxxxxxx>]

Q??øÔP9Ó¾´ä]¢{^?Ôò¥ë^Æßé?¨§r«±ëb²?<çÝB¢{^?Ôëj{z±'r?b?Ú±î¸Hello Rene,

in the meantime Rugg generated  2 pdf documents on  his site  
http://mcs.open.ac.uk/gr768/thingsinprogress/voynich.shtml

- see two links there at the bottom  -  where he is answering some objections to his 
work. The objections are not mentioning the names of real objectors and they may be 
even reworded.   His argumentation goes along the lines like these, I quote:

(Objection) : There?s no hard proof that Kelley had any contact with the manuscript 
(Answer) : Agreed, but that?s not a central part of my argument. My argument about 
complexity would be the same regardless of who might have produced the manuscript. 
In fact, one possible suspect would be Cardano, who invented the Cardan grille. There 
is a fair amount of circumstantial evidence pointing towards Kelley, but that?s another 
story.

Very nice skating indeed: since Kelly is not the central point, let' talk something else :-). 
So forget Kelly, here  comes Cardano, the inventor of the grill. Never mind Rugg 
 didn't  even  prove that it was  Cardano grill that was really used :-).  But if it was Cardano,
 it must have been Cardano grill, and vice verso, right?  But the original Cardano grill 
was used rather as some kind of steganography - that is the grill was not turned afterwards 
and the hollow spaces were filled with null text,   the way the whole text looked like innocent, 
meaningful message, see Cardano's own words: 
http://www.titoktan.hu/_raktar/_e_vilagi_gondolatok/Cardan_crypt.htm  Section 
"Cardan's screen". Whatever is Rugg using now could be anything but Cardano grill.  

We are still waiting for his circumstantial evidence about Kelly: Rugg never quoted 
anything but bad reputation of Kelly.  On the contrary, the evidence is rather against it, 
 but that?s "another story" again.

One good thing: we got Rugg in defense, I believe :-). Too bad the bublic does not see
 the second half of the game. 

Jan



=======  You wrote:  
>
>--- Elmar Vogt <elvogt@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Brilliant!
>> 
>> I'm not one to discard the hoax theories so quickly,
>> but Jacques, this 
>> appears to be an excellent test for any hoax
>> hypothesis: Are there words 
>> which do not appear in the VM which the discs (or
>> grilles or whatever we 
>> use) ought to be producing in sufficient quantities?
>
>One of the objections raised to Gordon Rugg is
>that the most frequent word in the samples he 
>has generated is (Eva) ky. This does occur in the 
>VMs, but perhaps only a dozen times or so.
>
>This is not quite as strong as the argument
>you/Jacques propose, but I wonder if that is valid
>in any case. Take one English book of 240 pages.
>Does it contain all English words? Certainly not.
>Thus, one cannot use this book to test if a 
>certain word is a valid English word or not.
>
>It gets more tricky with the VMs. Assuming that
>the text is in a language, are there words in
>this language beside the ones written in the Voynich
>MS? To me this is a tricky question, since at
>the moment our knowledge of this language is 
>confined to what's in this one book.
>
>It's like Schroedinger's cat: is the cat in the
>box male, female, or a third sex we have never
>seen before?
>
>Cheers, Rene
>
>
>	
>		
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