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Re: VMs: Phonetic VMS?

To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: VMs: Phonetic VMS?
From: Jacques Guy <jguy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 11:10:18 +1000
Reply-to: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Sender: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
3/03/2005 7:33:08 PM, "mjmurphy" <4mjmu@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>Has any one attempted to assign a phonetics to the written VMS symbols?  In 
>my head I see Voynich rap tunes, limericks, and haiku.
>Well, maybe not, but are there any theories as to what it might sound  like 
>if read aloud?

Oh yes, several of us have, quite some years ago. I seem
to remember that we even called those various schemes
"voicenich". I invented one of them, and it sounded grand
and even believable, but, believe me, it was meant as
a joke in the first place. Found it! Actually, "them",
because there are two of them, very different from one
another.

Date: Mon, 6 Jan 92 09:05:49 EST
From: j.guy@xxxxxxxxx (Jacques Guy)
Message-Id: <9201052205.AA05392@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: voynich@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Pronounceable Voynich


Hark, O Mortals, the Divine Sound of the Most Mysterious Language
in the World:

praitusox complam as aclavii istem istesus iclotesusox cum ples istendus
oxesus iplotas e s cum plavi istclavii istas as* iclotas iclotas dai
oxusaor istiplus es complavii istedo icloteasus iclot*s dasavii oxus
revii ecluus eclies oxemeclus iclot*as davii eplavii em eplai
oxais cum itias iclotavii icrotas iprotavii
condasaiiste
* edas *us istem icroteus eusdas ist* ox iproteavii istedaxus
*istus itedus epliteus eclitem iteiclotus ex itus davi istes plex
davii istex iprotem istedus
davi *ecliedus
* condavi icrotixavii em ox icrotius conclavi isteistus icrotedam ix
epliste plisteus eclaiui ecliem eplai istedavi oxiplotus davii
isteus iplotius pledavii icrotus icrotedaumox iclotius iste endavi do
davi evii item edavii itedavi itdus eplavi d*i iclotus pledo
davii istiplotius iplotes ites istius plem item item ples item
iste item ist edai plistus plitus des itedavii iste pluatur
comite clitius itiplavi istiecristem diordusdo iclotus daiclotus


And what is this Noble Language called? Why, Voicenich of course.

How did I do it? I took my skrying glass, and called upon the
Angels. Neboniel appeared and spake unto me, saying: "Prepend
thou a dot to indicate the start of each and every line, where
only a space shews now, and take thou under my dictation this
translation file which thou shalt use with TRANSLIT. Call thou
the output file VOYNICH.VOI, and edit it forthwith, replacing
each and every dot with a space."

All of you Dee fans and Kelley diggers, can you figure out what
Neboniel dictated to me?

(The Angel also suggested an improvement to TRANSLIT)



Date: Sun, 26 Jan 92 16:35:15 EST
From: j.guy@xxxxxxxxx (Jacques Guy)
Message-Id: <9201260535.AA26937@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: voynich@xxxxxxxx
Subject: Pronounceable Voynich



With the clamoring there has been for "pronounceable Voynich", I can't
resist proposing a pronounceable scheme. Apart from the values of the
vowels, it is, however, completely arbitrary. Some of the values I have
picked because they were good mnemonics. Here goes:

<cc>  a
 <a>  a
 <9>  a
 <c>  e
 <o>  o

Now for the arbitrary stuff:

Currier   my  Pronounce it:

  S     <ct>  r  (rolled, Scots-fashion)
  Z    <c't>  l
  P      <qp> t  (looks a bit like a capital T)
  F      <lp> k  (ditto, K)
  B      <q;> p  (ditto, P)
  V      <l;> f  (ditto, F)
  R      <2>  y  (I actually started making it "z" because
                  it looks like capital "Z"; then I changed my
                  mind to "y", because I actually think there
                  is a good chance that it is the medieval
                  "i-longa", in other word, a variant of <i>)
  2      <S>  s  (ditto, mirror-image of S)

  8      <8>  b  (ditto, B)
  E      <x>  m  (I felt the need for an "m" somwhere)
  4      <4>  h  (might be its true value, too)
  J     <ig>  g  (pronounced "ng")
  7      <&>  ditto: J and 7 look so much the same!
   (in fact, it doesn't matter: you can spell it "ng", there
   won't be any ambiguity, just remember that "ng" is a
   *single* Voynich letter, not two)

  D      <v>  u  (ditto, u, pronounced "oo")
  I      <i>  i  (ditto, i, pronounced "ee")
        <ii>  n  (ditto, German cursive n)

  Consequently:

  N     <iv> iu  (pronounced [yu} as in "you" or "yew")
  M    <iiv> nu  (pronounced "noo")
  K    <iig> ing (pronounced "ing")
  L   <iiig> ung (pronounced "oong")
  3  <iiiig> ning
  6     <cg> eng  (no ambiguity: <cig> "eng" never occurs
                    in the Voynich language)


When you have the "gallows" letters *inside* Currier's <S>
and <Z> (my <ct> and <c't>) you pronounce the "gallows"
first, then a short "i" (which you spell "i"), then "r" or
"l". Thus: <cqpt> --> "tir", <clpt> --> "kir", <cl;t> -->
"fir", <cq;t> --> "pir", etc. Since <i> never occurs in the
Voynich language after <ct> or <c't> there can be no
confusion. The inserted "i" is there only to remind you
that this is an "inserted" letter group, so that we can
distinguish:

<qpct>  "pr"
<cqpt>  "pir"


If you hit a seemingly unpronounceable cluster, e.g. "prb", it will
usually have a liquid ("r" or "l") in the middle:  insert an "i" after
that liquid. Since Voynich <i> cannot occur in that position, you
create no ambiguity. (And, anyway, that's how Sanskrit is pronounced:
"Krishna" is spelt "Krshna", with a syllabic "r", and originally it was
pronounced with a syllabic "r", like in Czech and in Serbo- Croat).

Let's try (remember: those spaces between words are meaningless):

Sample of Language A:

<00101A> l;act92.9lpax.aS.aqpaiiv.c'tox.c'toS9.cqptoS92.9.lpoS.c'tox89=
         f a ray ak am as at an u  l om  l osa  tirosay a k os  l omba

<00102A> 2oS9.clptaS.o.S.9.lpaiv.c'tqpaiiv.c'taS.aS*.cqptaS.cqptaS.8av=
         yosa  kiras o s a  kaiu  l t a nu  l as as?  tiras  tiras bau

<00103A> 29aii2.c'tclp9.oS.9lpaiiv.c'to8.cqptoaS9.cqpt*S.8aSaiiv.29=
         yaan y  l ek a os a kanu   l ob  tiroasa  tir?s basanu  ya

<00104A> 4oiiv.oqpcc9.oqpcoS.2oxoqp9.cqpt*aS.8aiiv.olpaiiv.ox.olpav=
         honu  ot a a ot eos yomota   tir?as banu  o ka nu om ok au

<00105A> 2ai2.9.ctcaS.cqptaiiv.cq;taS.cl;taiiv#
         yaiy a  reas  tiran u  piras  piran u




Well, well, well, listen to that

Faraya kamasa tanu lomlosa tiro saya kos lomba
Yo saki rasosa kaiul tanu lasas[a] tiras-tiras bau
Ya any lekao sakanulob tiroasa tir[a]s basanu ya
Honuota a oteosy omota tir[o]as banu o kanu o mokau
Yai yareasti ranu piras-piranu.


Why, it almost sounds real!

If you really want to preserve the Voynich spelling you can
distinguish between its three a's in writing: there is no
harm in spelling <cc> "ee" (just remember it's pronounced
"ah"), and perhaps using a capital "A" for the one with the
flourish (9), with a space preceding it perhaps, viz:

Far Ay Akamasa tanu lom los Atiros Ay Akoslomb A


Let's see some Language B:

<04901B>
q;c'tcolp9.o8aii2.4o9=ol;c'to8.ct9q;ctc9.9q;ctc89aiv=ctol;o=ctcq;ct89=
p l eok a oban y hoa of  l ob  ra p rea a p rebaaiu  rof o  le p rba

<04902B> 8ctc9.2aiiv.a&cco89.9lpceqptc9.ctc89.9qpc89.89=ctceqptc89.x2=
         br ea yan u angaoba ake tir ea  reba a teba ba  re tireba my

<04903B> oaiiv.c'teqpt9.eqptc89.oxo9.9lpc't89.oxctc89.89x=9c'tcc9.2aiiv.2=
         oan u  l  tira  tireba omoa ak  l ba om reba bam a l a a yan u y

<04904B> 4olpc89.ctco2.9qpc89.4olpc89.9qpc89.ctclpc89.8aiiv.o8aig.2ax89=
         hok eba  reoy a teba hok eba at eba r e keba ban u obang yamba

<04905B> 2aiiv.c'tc89.cc89.cc89.2ct9.8aiiv.eqptc89=4olpcc89.4olpc89.eqptc9=
         yanu   leba   aba  aba yr a ban u  tireba hok a ba hok eba  tirea

<04906B> Sctc89.4olpc89#
         s reba hok eba

<04907B>
q;cco.4olpc89.8aS.c'tco.9q;ct2c82.2=aiiv=c'taq;ctc89.l;ct9.8ax.ctc89.2aS=
 p ao hok eba bas  l eo a pr yeby y an u  l a p reba  f ra bam  reba yas

<04908B>
8aiiv.c'tc89.4olpcc89.4oqpcc8aS.2=olpox.9qpc89.4olpcc89.4iiivlpc89=
ba nu   leba hok  aba ho ta bas y o kom a teba hok  aba hin u k eba

<04909B>
qpctcoc't9.8c't89.olpc89.ctclpt9.2=89=89=9lpccct9.olpcc89.ctclp9=
 tr eo l a b l ba ok eba l  kira y ba ba a k a ra o k aba  rek a

So:

Pleo kao bany ho a oflobra prea a preba aiu rofo le pr(i)ba
Brea yanu angaoba ake tire areba ate babare tire bamy
Oanul tira-tireba omoa akl(i)baom rebaba mala ayanuy
Ho kebare oyateba ho keba ate barekeba banu obang yamba
Yanule baabaabayra banu tire bahoka-bahoke ba tirea
Sreba ho keba
Pao ho keba basleo apryeby yanula preba frabam rebayas
Banu leba ho kaba ho taba syoko mateba ho kaba hi nukeba
Tre olabl(i)ba o kebalkiray baba akarao kabareka


Uh? Those two languages sound utterly different! What a
surprise.... This "pronounceable Voynich" bit *is* quite
useful after all. Peering at frequency tables, I would never
have realized how different A and B were. The mystery
thickens....





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