Hypothesis about page 84v

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ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

In the last days we completed the translation of the main text of the central rosette (foldout pages 85r-86v). Our expectations regarding the content have been fully satisfied and the terminology used in this text is adequate. Meanwhile we don’t have doubts about the kabbalistic nature of the script. Our refined alphabet proved to be sufficient accurate, so we intend to translate further parts of the text and publish them from time to time on our site: https://enspace.net
There are some alphabets published on the internet, which map Voynich glyphs into phonemes or letters of different languages, but as I know, these alphabets resulted into translation of a few words at most. With our alphabet we were able so far to translate every text in the VMS we tried to translate, so we think it’s applicable to the whole script.

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

There were 2-3 posts about our papers in other forums. Neither of them was inspiring nor inspired. However, we realized that already the assignment of the glyphs to the abjad letters (we omit the Aramaic letters and use the Latin letters in the transcription instead) can be misread. It’s not that we couldn’t improve our documents.
Indeed, we didn’t show the assignments of the Voynich glyphs in pictures. I was thinking this would be obvious using the alphabet table. We will include pictures like this below in our next papers for more convenience. The beginning of the second part of the central text after the first bracket sign would be then (with the special acronym 89 for YHWH):
Rosette A01.jpg
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‘az ‘achar ella‘ (awz-akh-ar‘-ale-law‘)
YHWH lebab (yahwe-lay-bawb')
YHWH guwphah (yahwe-goo-faw')
‘owlel taba (o-lale‘-taw-baw‘)

Here is a short reprise, how we started to evolve our alphabet. First assignments we made were the short names around the central image. We assumed them to be the 12 tribe names of Israel and 7 Yahweh praise words. Well, they were too short to contain vowels, so we tried it with abjad. One word occurs 3x here, 1x as part of a longer word (picture below). We assumed this word to be Yudah, we found a very similar Aramaic word yeda' (yed-aw') which means to paise, give thanks and which would be identically written in abjad. And then, I remembered that the Jews from Sechem who worshiped Baal, were called the El Berith or Babbrit (God of the Covenant) Yudah. Here we would miss one t or th, but maybe the author wanted to express his displeasure with them as bera’ without t means (son of evil) and they were considered as apostates – an intimate would understand and this text, in our opinion, was not written for a wide audience.
Rosette A0.jpg
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In this way we came to our first assumption about 5 glyphs. The idea to use 7 letters ‘double’ came later as we realized, that it would be not enough letters available, when we use some special letters only at the beginning or as second-last letter of a word. And the advice to consider 7 letters as ‘double used’ comes from the Book of Formation the oldest Jewish mystic writ. Before we started to decode the main text, we successfully mapped all short words from the central page of the foldout and 3 dozen other words from different pages. All were adequate and fit perfectly into the context.

Most references we made in our papers are those to well-known stories from Old Testament (the Hebrew Bible). The dictionaries and lexicons we used are available under:
Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bibl ... Languages
Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament ... rdance.com

And this one contains the meanings of biblical names etc.:
Free online encyclopedia of Biblical na ... tions.com)

From there we have our transcriptions, translations and the specified pronunciation, which we consider essential for the decryption (an example: written word ending -h or simply an auslaut a’/e’ but seemingly pronounced likewise w - like in west – is a prevalent word ending in Aramaic and therefore the frequent occurrence of the glyph o at the end of words).
We are convinced, that this script is of Jewish mystical nature, so we can only recommend to read some of the standards like Sefer Yetzirah or Schir ha-Schirim (the Song of the Songs). The garden and herbal motifs in the second remind sometimes a bit of the plants in VMS, despite that concrete, real existing plants are mentioned there.

I hope this explains a bit. Now we are going to decrypt the text of the next rosettes. The cycle begins with the middle rosette to the right.
Rosette A1.jpg
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The text speaks out what the image shows: trees and grass burn and the small loops with a blue dot inside are souls. The text says: all souls united. The earth apparently burns while the souls gather in expectancy of the Judgment Day.
We will publish further translations in a few weeks.

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

Sorry, the URLs don't work! Are to long? Try to google for these dictionaries.

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proto57
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by proto57 »

Hi Stellar: The links you posted were not too long, they were parsed incorrectly: They directed back to the Voynich net instead of to the host URLs. But I do see where you intended them to go, so I'll post them here for you:

Bible Hub: Search, Read, Study the Bible in Many Languages

Hebrew Dictionary of the Old Testament Online

Free Online Encyclopedia of Biblical Names

Rich.
"Man is the measure of all things: What is, that it is; what is not, that it is not"- Protagoras

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

Thanks a lot, Rich. I should have tested them in my post before submitting...

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

Hi, we decrypted the entire circular text of the next rosette in the “cosmological” foldout of the VMS.
Mid_right_rosette.JPG
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In our opinion this is the starting point in the evolving apocalyptical narration after the introduction in the central rosette. I put here the plain translation of this religious text:


Daughters’ (of God) words remind the apple of the eye (the little man) […] to sustain the will (of God) to ruin man’s world, trees-fold and grass
Soul loops gather to lift up revolving in unity. Behold upper!
Furthermore, in elevation descending in a gently move is He (God himself) to speak at that place unto which belong to mankind to pour out wrath over boasters, to pour out wrath over who have baked
YHWH will be coming, YHWH will be then the one who will judge the earlier baked, the fruits and father’s (God’s) goblet, willing flames (fire), keen on strength, dazzling (bright), (glowing) God willing to make a baldness of reed (man in his fragility) which comes in a wink (of the eyes), which is spoil in a wink (of the eyes) for they have turned away from God (as father of his people) and hasten (to do so) and a multitude of worthless requests, of Babylonian throng (confusion by mixing Hebrew/Non-Hebrew) a pitfall side (of land) though lest even a desolation


For those interested in more details, I have posted a new document “Decoding of the Voynich Manuscript 3” on our site: https://enspace.net (use http://enspace.net if a security note appears, I guess I have to renew the SSL Certificate) where we give details of assignment of the glyphs, transcription, translation and a short explanation about our findings.

ProxyS
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:51 pm

Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

Hi, now we turned our attention to the next rosette (the top right rosette of the foldout). As first we decrypted the spiral text in the middle of the rosette and then a part of the circular text. The two texts and the image are perfectly concerted. You can’t understand the intention of this image utterly before you haven’t deciphered both.
(That somebody dared to think these thoughts in medieval or early Renascence times! It’s simply breath-taking).
I intended to publish 2 separate papers - first for the inner spiral text. However, I just have seen, that they started a blog on Voynich Ninja site exact about this spiral text – a swarm attempt to decode it. So I will delay it a few weeks. Don’t want to barge in with our ideas. On the other side, does anyone care?
The rosette alludes to two subjects at once, so there are two layers of comprehension. The first layer, expressed in the beginning sentences of the circular text, is the eschatological theme of the preparation for the Day of Judgement in the parable of the Ten Virgins. The sky full of stars is the night sky. The darkness starts to cover the earth as the second coming of the bridegroom, the Messiah, is delayed for whatever reason. Five wise virgins brought oil for their lamps/torches, their burning torches are depicted near the sky, partly covered by the night sky. Five foolish virgins didn’t. The five wise will find their way to the Messiah and partake on the mysteries of the end times. The five foolish will miss Him.
torches.jpg
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It was one of the most popular parables in the Middle Ages and had influence on Gothic art, sculpture and the architecture of German and French cathedrals [wiki].

The second layer will be revealed later.

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

We prepared a new paper (“Stern waves of chastisement”) and placed it on the http://enspace.net site. There we decode the text of the much-discussed upper right rosette of the 9 rosettes foldout.
Image 3.jpg
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We give an explanation of the Aramaic text and the enclosed image, so I don’t want to repeat it here. A plain English translation reads roughly:

Furthermore, attention will be brought (will go) now (here) to Father’s miraculous signs (portents). The weakening lamp will shrivel, bowl (of the lamp) together with wood (shaft containing oil).
Blemish will be brought down, a kind of chariot wheel devastation, will cover so with shade the weakening flame of the exhausted poor (low) terrified at fault. YHWH, let there not be a cause to (for) grief, whether brought down by secret enchantment, brought down by law (edict) or rumour (fame), what is abhorrent to the light of joy and happiness (of those) who don’t fall into the hand of the (sea) monster looming to come in, to act wickedly, with an infinite burden.
Bring to an end the weakening, select (purify) these to be introduced, fitly subdue, descend to advance to grow great the weakening lamp, shut off haughty, vanity, enveloping one another, arrogant (of speech), defiant vomit, charming (secret) lustfulness (inordinate love). Descend, oh that!, together with longing waves of chastisement.
Only (one) mighty God above, judge just, act rightly then!


The messianic expectations stressed in that text let us believe it had been composed in the first century CE. The medieval illustrator enriched the text with images which abstract and generalise an oppressive power of authorities as such. In our opinion, a castle “behind high walls” symbolises such an authoritative power, the root of the vice dispersing the darkness (the more abstract layer of interpretation mentioned in the former post).

The inner spiral text deserves a separate consideration as it contains another spectacular clue about the group or sect to whom this text can be assigned.

ProxyS
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Joined: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:51 pm

Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

Let me recapitulate what we have done in the last months.

We published some papers with Aramaic text and English translation (meanwhile more than 1/3 of the rosette foldout). There are only two possibilities: the published text is the correct decipherment of what is written in Voynichese glyphs, is the first, or it isn’t and the published text has nothing in common with the underlying Voynichese text, is the second. We start with the second.

What is then the published Aramaic text? Must be then our own creation, we are the authors of this text. This would be odd as we don’t speak this language, didn’t hear so far of somebody on earth writing meaningful texts in a language he doesn’t speak. But there is the possibility that the text came out somehow by chance. This would be even more absurd. Why a text came out when using our alphabet which corresponds to the images and not a text of something completely different e. g. winegrowing…
So, let’s say the mixture of both yields the published text. We use our alphabet in a consistent way and that gives always a set of random resulting words. But then we can pick out words which match with our concept and this gives at the end a wording we wished to have. Reading abjad writings is absolutely a process like this. If you see ydh you can’t decide immediately if the word is yudah or yedah. This is context-sensitive (depends on proceeding and following words) and you can pick out the correct word only if you understand the context. But if you think that this can generate a free conceived texts you are wrong. Would it be that case abjad scripts wouldn’t be readable at all; every reader would read them in a completely different way. And from the experience we made with this foldout, you very often don’t have a set of resulting words but only one or two of them. E. g. words with double consonants like ll, dd, bb plus one another consonant before or behind with a non-written vowel in-between (there seem not to be words having 3 sequential consonants in Aramaic like in Serbo-Croatian) yield mostly univocal wording. There isn’t any choice at all.
Therefore, after decipherment of these longer passages, we are convinced, the only rational option is the first one…

But let me ask this: what would convince you? The so far revealed passages are consistent but it is, as I can assess, an unknown text, the wording and the structure is far apart from the wording and structure of the Greek apocalypse of St John, even if some motifs seem familiar.
So, I could understand an impression of an artificial creation.

But if the decipherment of a Voynich text passage with our alphabet would result in a text, which is well-known, like a familiar prayer or saying or something else - would this convince you about the correctness of the decoding method and the underlying language?

Let me know your opinion.

ProxyS
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Re: Hypothesis about page 84v

Post by ProxyS »

In physics theoreticians deliver theoretics and experimental physicists deliver results of their experiments. The comparison proves or disproves the theoretical prediction and quantifies the quality of the experimental measurement. In contrast, in Voynich circles everything seems to be about gut feelings and few is about examination and measurement.

As for ‘underlying language and meaningful text’ theories the only reasonable subject for examination are transcription and translation samples. Only these samples can show the quality of the claimed decryption and the distance between the revealed text and the presupposed topic. In my opinion, an ‘underlying language and meaningful text’ theory is worthless if it doesn’t deliver any translation samples. It’s like a physics theory without any equation between physical quantities…

But let’s go back to the beginning (of the VMS). We can’t formulate a numerical expectation value for the beginning “verses” but we know of what beginnings are composed: abstracts, indexes of contents, introductory words, texts, which prepare for that to follow. Extremely unlikely to hit on a text from the middle of a tale. We applied our alphabet to the first glyphs of the VMS and found out, that the beginning words of the VMS are words of the beginning:
word.jpg
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'ay ah'ee where?, whence?

ro'sh roshe head, front, beginning

'ehiy e-hee' where, will be, is, was

dabba dab-ba’ word, words

tsav tsav command, order, precept

'eth ayth with, together with, near, from

YHWH

tsad tsad side, beside, on the side

'az awz then, at that time, in that case, that (being so)

'elleh ale'-leh these

YHWH

'az awz then, at that time, in that case, that (being so)

'ehiy e-hee' where, will be, is, was

'illek il-lake' these, those

'osh ohsh foundation

'ehiy e-hee' where, will be, is, was

dabba dab-ba’ word, words

where the beginning (there) was the word (of command, to act)
a command with YHWH
side by side then these
YHWH then (in that case) was these (both)
the foundation was the word


In the Peshitta version of these introductory words of John appears a different (older?) form of Aramaic. The word used for ‘the word’ is millah, milleh or miltha (מִלָּה). Moreover, there are significant textual differences to the above text:
Peshitta.jpg
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Obviously, the Peshitta version is a translation from Greek. In the VMS we apparently are confronted with a different, independent (older?) Aramaic wording of John 1:1.

On our site (https://enspace.net) we explain in detail the mapping between glyphs and letters in this passage, show to whom these words are attributed by the scribe and tell you, why Goethe was interested in the wording of John’s Gospel.

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