Re: Folding keys etc...

[zowen@xxxxxxxxxx]

Hmm..  I'm very interested in page 57v (I think that's right, I'm still
working on learning the page numbering system myself)..  This place has
many single characters together (Which I know has been recorded on Jim's
site and others).  What about these representing numbers?  Any discussion
about this?  (I'm sure there's stuff in the archives, but I think this page
would be a prime candidate, considering the improbability of 17 single
character words..)  If this has already been researched, sorry to take up
your time..



Hi Nick,

you wrote:    -=se=-> I WRITE <-=se=-


 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 16:07:36 +0100
 From: Nick Pelling <incoming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 To: voynich@xxxxxxxx
 Subject: Folding keys etc...

 Hi Steve,

 I've had a go at making folding keys, as per your website...

           http://www.diac.com/~ekwall2/voynich/

 .....so as to understand how the basic mechanism would translate into
purely
 cryptographic terms.

 As I understand it, each gallows character (plus their four c--c
 struck-through versions) has its own separate translation table for the
 characters that follow on from it, which you believe are encoded
 left-to-right, then top-to-bottom.

-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !! <-=se=-

 So: the decoding algorithm would then look like:-

 (1) if the first character on a page (or paragraph?) isn't a gallows
character
           then revert to a pre-agreed translation set   [ie set a default
set]

-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !! or if not a default then the set (KEY) your
using at the time <-=se=-

 (2) read in an input symbol (left-to-right, then top-to-bottom)

-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY <-=se=-

 (3) translate it to an output symbol using to the current translation set

-=se=-> Even I haven't a clue as to the CURRENT set? <-=se=-

 (4) Note: these can map an input symbol to either single or multiple
 characters.

-=se=-> Again - no clue here - but oddly I wonder if entire WORDS or
procedures mightn't be in ONE ~folding~ AREA. <-=se=-

 (5) if that input symbol also happened to be a gallows character
           then switch to a different translation set  [ie refold your
folding key]
 (6) loop to step #2

-=se=-> Hummm NO, I think we are on the _same page_ BUT, I don't quite
follow your question here, but YES, each "gallows" IS - pointing to a
section on the 3x3 (9 spaced KEY page).. AND YES (you would just
REFOLD the SAME (key'd) translation set, AND YES, you would LOOP until
you run into a __L O N G__ gallows sign - with 8 (9 with space) or
more characters under it . THEN you would have NEW "translation set"
(KEY FOLDING PAGE) I've seen this asked for .. but never the key
itself page(s)... the interesting thing to me is, that it includes 8
characters and NOT 8 words or 8 recipes or 8 (ANYthing Larger than a
character setting) I have not even compared this to "text"
characters but they appeared to FIT right in with the other
characters and are NOT foriegn shapes etc.. This points (to me)
as a simple ~scramble~ as it, were with each "gallows" character
telling you when to "SWITCH" and to WHICH KEY.   I need another
word here myself - as you DON'T switch KEYS just characters
with a single "gallows", you SWITCH KEYs with the LONG GALLOWS
that overshadow mutliple characters. So, I guess I will will
just call them the _LONG GALLOWS_ until (i'm sure) someone
corrects me and tells me "THEY" already have a name in the
group here. <-=se=-

 4 gallows characters plus 4 c--c'ed gallows characters ==> 8 translation
 sets... but we don't have any, so will need to guess/infer/predict them.

-=se=-> I haven't a clue as to what you are sayin here - sorry <-=se=-

 Have I understood this correctly? And do believe there were many folding
 keys or just one?

-=se=-> I believe that there are/were(?) at least 3 (THREE) key pages,
         That's all I've seen so far <-=se=-

 If so: the obvious test for this would be to examine the statistics for
 each block of text following each of the 8 gallows characters up to (and
 including!) the next gallows character along.

 If these 8 sets of statistics show similar frequency distributions, we
 could build arbitrary mappings between them, to try to normalise them into

 a single unified alphabet: and see where that leads.

-=se=-> Again, I haven't a Clue as to your Path here - sorry <-=se=-

 .....or has this kind of code already been analysed to death in the 1940s?
:-/

-=se=-> I would've HOPED SO - seems ancient enough doesn't it ??<-=se=-

 Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....

-=se=->
Best to you & yours

-=se=-
steve (cheers back 2U2 (mirror image as it were)) ekwall

p.s. some of you guy's (gals included :-) in this group mention one
numbering system : like 72v and the only pages I have seen are at the
holding library and have names like "234556887542.jpg" etc..'

so please excuse my ignorance here when you reference a specific page.
I'm VERY NEW at VMS (and personally) didn't want to have anything to
do with it. Thank you.
<-=se=-