Re: Folding keys etc...

[Steve Ekwall <ekwall2@xxxxxxxx>]

Hi Nick and all :-)

you wrote:        -=se=-> I WRITE <-=se=-
 

 Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:24:24 +0100
 From: Nick Pelling <incoming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 To: voynich@xxxxxxxx
 Subject: Re: Folding keys etc...
 
 Hi Steve,
 
 OK: let's see if we can move even more steps closer! :-)
 
-=se=-> Thanks for your patience, I'm a doff in any language <-=se=-

 The characters under a "long gallows" character (the embellished 
 stretched-out ones that begin some paragraphs) are associated with 
 different keys.
 
-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !!  I haven't seen it all yet, but there
is no reason why the LONG Gallows (containing 8 characters) couldn't
be in the middle of any page either - The 3 major ES pages (I'll
try
to find those for you with the little numbers like f75v etc.. for
better examples etc.. are ALL at the beginning of the page (1st
paragraph) so you would know WHICH KEY to use. <-=se=-


 Every time people decoding a page see a "long gallows", they put down the 
 key they're holding and pick up the new one indicated by the characters 
 under the gallows' shadow. They also then initially fold the key in the 
 direction indicated by the type of gallows character?
 

-=se=-> YES & NO (hummmmm), When the Long gallows are seen -->YES-->
you ADD/USE that as your NEW key code... NO on the ~folding direction~
the FOLDING procedure remains the same!  ADDITIONALLY one would 
not pick up the NEW abcd dcba KEY etc... but you would simply
TRANSFER "abcd dcba" to your Folding KEY Paper - THUS you
really DON'T NEED the "missing" or Torn key pages - the key's
code is always in THAT script - clever stuff !! <-=se=-


          Aside to the group:- does anyone know how many times
          "long gallows" characters appear in the whole VMS?
 
 Then: proceeding left-to-right, top-to-bottom, they use the translation 
 table (on the key they're holding) associated the last-encountered gallows 
 character to translate each character (or short group of characters) they 
 read, thereby producing a character or short word (like "the" or "and", etc).

-=se=-> YES * IF I READ WHAT YOU WROTE ABOVE CORRECTLY - YOU ARE
"ABSOLUTLY CORRECT!!!!!" - by golly, I think you got it (GREAT!!! :-)
My only worry in our lst two e.mails here is that you are holding on
to left-right and top-to-bottom to hard?? That is just the way it is
written, and has nothing to do with the "gallows" last-encountered
etc.. The "Gallows" you are looking AT (anywhere in the text) SHOW YOU
where on the 3x3 folded (9 spaced paper) your "INSERT THIS ONE NOW"
code is.
<-=se=- 
 
 Then: every time they run into a gallows character, they refold the key 
 they're holding so as to match the orientation of the gallows character 
 (according to the folding diagram on your site)

-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !!
ref:www.diac.com/ekwall2/voynich/folding101.shtml <-=se=- 

 >the interesting thing to me is, that it includes 8
 >characters and NOT 8 words or 8 recipes or 8 (ANYthing Larger than a
 >character setting) I have not even compared this to "text"
 >characters but they appeared to FIT right in with the other
 >characters and are NOT foriegn shapes etc..
 
          Aside to the group:- has anyone catalogued all the groups
          of characters that lie beneath all the "long gallows" instances?
 
-=se=-> I too stand ready to KNOW this number of occurences also, as I
have yet to see but about 1/4? of the whole MS.. But I did SEE a
~Flirty~
goofy ~spirially~ long L o n g - L  O  N  G one though at the
Beginning of ONE page - that "I" think was "just for FUN" etc.. It's
round about nature was _NOT a KEY_ ~swap area~ I'm talking about.
More of a "HERE we GOoooo" still, again?> (continue _same KEY_ if you
got this far) super LONG gallows (show off script etc..)<-=se=-

          Also: do any of those groups of characters reappear
          in any of the "key-like" pages?
 
 >So, I guess I will 
 >just call them the _LONG GALLOWS_ until (i'm sure) someone
 >corrects me and tells me "THEY" already have a name in the
 >group here. <-=se=-
 
 "Long gallows" works for me. :-)
 
-=se=-> Cool : - ) <-=se=-

 >-=se=-> I believe that there are/were(?) at least 3 (THREE) key pages,
 >          That's all I've seen so far <-=se=-
 
 Sorry: do you mean "seen" as in "seen the long gallows that refer to those 
 key pages" or "seen the actual key pages themselves"?
 
-=se=-> seen as in shown (by ES) the "actual pages" - ES saying here
SEE it! (1) and HERE see IT??? (2) and HERE AGAIN & (3)AGAIN - see
IT??.....
These were the long gallows (8 underneath characters) ... I have never
SEEN the "KEY PAGES" (I was told THEY are missing?? TORN from the VMS)
I'm still personally wondering why I can't re-follow those pages..
links?.. but I KNOW THEY are there and when I finally find the
"numbers" you guys use - I will report them.. <-=se=-


          Aside to the group: as an explanation for a lot of the features
          and statistical profile of the VMS, that also fits in with the level
          of cryptography contemporary to the historical dating indicated
          by the context... I think this actually makes a lot of sense.
 
 Interesting! :-)
 
 Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
 
 
-=se=-> 

Thanks for putting up with my rantings and ravings here (ha.haa) .. I
spent a good week or two just trying to write THIS down on a web page
BEFORE I even went to SEE what a "VOYNICH.MS"?? was all about.. NOW I
feel more in the dark then ever!!
 
Best to you and yours there

-=se=-
steve (it's not that hard) ekwall

<-=se=-