Re: Folding keys etc...

[Steve Ekwall <ekwall2@xxxxxxxx>]

Hi Nick :-)
 

you wrote:    -=se=-> I WRITE <-=se=-


 Date: Thu, 02 Aug 2001 10:47:50 +0100
 From: Nick Pelling <incoming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
 To: voynich@xxxxxxxx
 Subject: Re: Folding keys etc...
 
 Hi Steve,
 
 >-=se=-> again you lost me here, the folding KEY has but 9 areas
 >available on it
 
 When I mentioned 8 lists, that's 9 areas less the blank one in the middle. :-)

-=se=-> ok your "list's"  = my area's etc.. <-=se=-
 
 >The characters found under a LONG Gallows are inserted 'simply' across
 >the top (left to right) and down to the bottom "so if the characters"
 >were say 1x,2x,3x,4x (space) 5x,6x,7x,8x then:
 >
 >AREA on KEY PAPER    Character
 >
 >          C        =     1x
 >          A        =     2x
 >          D        =     3x
 >          H        =     4x
 >
 >          E        =     5x
 >          G        =     6x
 >          B        =     7x
 >          F        =     8x
 
 OK: so, to reconstruct the key, you'd go through all the pages, find all 
 the long gallows (like your Figure 11), grab the set of 8 characters 
 beneath/following them, transferring each of those characters into the 8 
 "short gallows" areas on your key in turn, in the order you've listed above.

-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !! <-=se=-
 
 I'm with you so far. :-)
 
 And even if there were some pages missing from the VMS, we could (probably? 
 possibly?) deduce what the remaining missing 
 long-gallows-following-characters needed to be for each of the 8 lists: so 
 all we'd have to do is guess their order.
 
-=se=-> YES - EXACTLY !!  ES said they were out of order!! 
We could tear a page out of "Huckelberry Finn" and we could _read_ it.
(the WHOLE BOOK is better though (ha.haa)) <-=se=-


 But - given that the VMS arrived in a number of separate pieces, and the 
 folio numbering (in the top right) looks like it was added 100 or more 
 years later (probably), how would you know *in which order* to add the long 
 gallows sets?
 
-=se=-> I've never seen it - can't answer that - maybe later? <=-se=-

 ie, if you had even just two sets of long gallows, followed by...
 
          #1      o p 8 a   o t c m
          #2      9 4 4 9   m p p 8
 
 .....would the first ("C") area contain  [ "o", "9" ],   or would it 
 contain   [ "9", "o"  ]  ?
 
-=se=-> #1 goes first (always)

Hummm I'm only 1/2 following you now - SORRY, `rats',BTW: your
use of "pairs" (& sets)  is throwing me too.. I've never used THAT
term. (a "pair" of what??...(continuing anyway)....
what I call "C" the upper left of an unfolded KEY paper (blank if you
like) is FILLED or written IN with the transfer characters from the
LONG gallows (found in the Beginning of most/the (shift) pages??).
<-=se=-

 Or: would it simply not matter? As we don't have the original alphabet list 
 anyway, we'd have to guess the second list regardless?

 -=se=-> YES, but that shouldn't be that hard (if I followed your
question), your Down to like 26 letters x 8 TOTAL (english) or
whatever alphabet you chose x 8..  

 Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
 
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

-=se=-> D*mn NICK (you must be on the computer.side of this group(ha.)
(smiles)...., not that I don't like books (history or plants,
stars..etc)

I didn't follow any of your last question THERE - sorry!  I will say I
just got back from the Delphi address you gave (thanks again),and your
insight on the "bizarre" opening gallows is correct. f42v  - what the
heck is the f for? folio?  my link says error every time I click a
picture (thumbnail.pic) THEN i get IT enlarged etc...
 
f42v (42v) as you described it IS THE PLAYGROUND of this ~SCRIBE~ 
"s/he really exposed his hands (mind) on THIS page (ha.haaa)"
 

I'm feeling like I'm exposing BOTH my ignorance here and my ~life~.

I KMOW (being a member of this list since ~2000 (1year) it is FULL of
superior brainics PH'Ds and the like... I'm OUT OF MY LEAGUE HERE and
~EVRYTHING~ is WAY over MY head... I'm just a messenger - reporting.
I'm not sure why folding a simple piece of paper first by 3rds to half
it, then by folding the top Down 1/2 way - then the Bottom UP is so
"convoluting" to some other minds (not yours, but others). piece of
cake. (simple) EACH "gallows" just points to looking at your folded
KEY paper.

THIS is going to cause some confussion to the STAT guys (gals included
too if you want) ha.haa

BUT the BOTTOM LINE now that I saw 4-5 MORE pages tonight READS with
the "gallows" taking UP space (position) and the AUTHORs hand exposed
on "f42v" saying even LESS then it says (appears to say?)

example ( I want to say " THIS PLANT MAKES ONE SLEEP "

NO KEY CHANGE:  "c_cTHIS c_PLANcC T MAKE_s_ 1 c_S_cLEEP" 

(toss the C's)
Thus would be MORE stat's? (data/content) then actually CONTENT.

But the ~FLOW~ or writing it is fairly straightforward... actually
it's quite nice.

Just between you and I (and the group as they get IT too), I'm getting
the feeling I shouldn't LOOK at the pages, nor the LINKS, These seem
to confuse me all the more for trying to tell you what to do. 
(just trying to stay helpful)

~weird~
The 3 characters " 8am " haunts me on every one of the pages I viewed
tonight.
~end weird~

Best to you & yours

-=se=-
steve (think folded key - when you see a gallows char.) ekwall