Re: VMs: RE: Feedback on: Are there samples of dotless Arabic in existence?

["Larry Roux" <lroux@xxxxxxx>]

We still have several astronomical sections that are unidentified.  I guess it all depends as to what the intent of the section is.  If it astrological in intent as well, then perhaps not.  Also, if the astronomical section is predictive, then events such as the 1572 supernova would not be included.  It should be noted, however, that f67v1 may be interpreted as Tycho's star.  Robert Teague is currently working towards identifying this, and the other charts.


******************************
Larry Roux
Syracuse University
lroux@xxxxxxx
*******************************
>>> djl@xxxxxxxxxxx 03/09/03 03:16 AM >>>
But suppose the dots were leading or following characters? entropy
flattened, but word length perhaps longer.  Also, wrt the astronomy section,
if the ms were after 1580 or so, would not the great supernova event of the
16th century be in there somewhere?   I mean if mere conjunctions were
included, wouldn't a daytime starr be featured?
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Jacques Guy
Sent: Saturday, March 08, 2003 2:13 AM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: VMs: Feedback on: Are there samples of dotless Arabic in
existence?


I put the case to sci.lang and, as I foresaw,
promptly got an answer from Yusuf B. Gursey.

Here it is:

even the earliest surviving islamic administrative papyrus
of 22 AH, written in an early cursive script has occassional
dots and even occassional vowel signs. so people must have
found them useful early.

: Another question now. Could someone quite fluent
: in Arabic unambiguously read a text written without
: the dots? If not systematically, at least with, say,
: a high level of confidence?

usually such texts are of predictable content.
coins, monuments, tughras, charts, annotations etc.
one usually knows what to expect.

(come to think of it, the manuscript in question
was supposed to be an astronomical work, right?)

one dotless or nearly dotless form of writing that had
considerable use was siya^qat (known by its partially
turkified name, hence the -t) writing. this was a
shorthand used in financial and trade work, also in
official registers of various types. dots were deliberatly
avoided on the grounds that these could be easily altered.
the lack of dots were compensated by the predictable nature
of the texts and by using specialized forms for different
words (which are frequently abreviated). the joining is
also irregular. it's really a specialized form of shorthand.
the numbers are written in arabic (language, regardless of
the language of the text) and abbreviated, resulting in an
alternative numeral system.


there is quite variation on these from region to region.
historians (archivists, economic historians etc.)
have to learn it.


______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list



______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list

______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list