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Re: VMs: could it not be a hoax (I would like it not to be it)



I think you are making some interesting points here.

The raw information exists to compile (at least a partial) list as you suggest: the archives of this mailing list. To date, however, no one has had the time and/or interest to try to boil the mass of ideas, conjectures, interesting results (and other stuff) down to a manageable document which a person could read in a reasonable amount of time.

Barring that, perhaps a more realistic approach would be to try to assemble in one place a short list of things which are known about the VMS with some confidence: information of the type in Jacques' recent posting about line and paragraph relationships, or the A-hand/B-hand distinction are the sort of thing I am talking about.

Another approach might be to solicit from the mailing list suggestions, not for answers, but for questions - that is, for ideas for objective tests which could be applied to the VMS to better characterize it. To give a couple examples of the kind of thing I am thinking of:
    - is the distribution of letter frequencies throughout the document approximately constant?
    - what percentage of words appear in the VMS only once?
    - how are the "weirdo" characters distributed through the document?
    - are there any characters (i.e. possible nulls) which, if deleted, would make the entropy characteristics of the VMS look more like a conventional language?.

    and so on.

One other observation: it may not be possible to apply the rigor of an IT project to the VMS simply because it is a hobby rather than anyone's job.

Bruce Grant

Larry Roux wrote:

 Thanks, Rene! I guess what I was trying to stress is that there does not seem to be a coherent attack at the VMS.  A lot of ideas are floated, and die in the ether. Coming from the computing world I am used to people submitting ideas, and the rest of the group proposing alternative solutions, suggestions, or debunking the thought.  Then a team of people work on making the best path to the outcome.  Issue logs are kept.  Best practices. What I would really like to see is a complete list of attacks being used and the chain of thoughts that propel the attack forward - or scuttle it.  It seems we are a bunch of single units trying to attack the VMS one at a time, in seclusion.  Many people are redoing old work (which is sometimes very valuable) and other people are working on attacks that might contain the one clue that the other person needs to resolve a problem. Personally, I find people sending suggestions/caveats very helpful ("Did you think of how your solution might fail in case b?" - "Your attack is interesting, but flawed in that ....").  There are a lot of great minds on this list.  It seems such a shame that they are all being used as individual units rather than some powerful network.
******************************
Larry Roux
Syracuse University
lroux@xxxxxxx
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>>> r_zandbergen@xxxxxxxxx 05/21/03 08:45AM >>>
Re-reading what I wrote, I realise that it is less
than clear:

> - problem: there are far more than 10 VMs
>   characters, so what is the meaning of words
>   that are composed of combinations?
>   + Is every word which is a combination of the
>      number characters definitely a number?

The numbers are a subset of the VMs script.
There are characters that are not numbers and
there are those that are. What to do with a
word that is composed of characters from both
sets?
Essentially, the number characters must also
represent letters. There are some problems
with that, but there is a clear precedent: Greek.
Greek astronomical texts do have numbers written
in the Greek alphabet embedded in the text, but
these are immediately recognisable as
invalid words. This is certainly true for someone
who can read Greek, but I have a feeling that the
type of statistics that people have run on the
VMs would also pick out these words.

So, in the VMs, words that are numbers should
probably be recognisable 'somehow', as being
'different'.

Come to think of it, the first word of each herbal
page would fit this category.

Cheers, Rene

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