VMs: RE: F85_86=VMS codepage?_2

["John Grove" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

You mean the text like these ones?

<f85v2.C1.1;U>
oka*-{gap}okedal.orain.otody.toar.chcpar.olarckhy.opchdar.or.ar.al.xar.opar.
olchedy.okalm.or.apolairi,dy-{figure}otchdair.otodar.otedar.otar,odaiin.olka
iin.otl.xar,ashe.ol.ar.ackhy.shdaiin.ocfheody.shedy-{gap}
<f85v2.C2.1;U>
okedar.okody.okair.chedy.opar.al,keody.s,ar,al,keoedy.otedaiin.olky.or.aiin.
ody.osain.x*.s.odaiin.okedal.ol.ar.odaiin,alo.sal*an.okeedy.otchdaiin.otedy.
okas,aiin.yky.odaiin.okal.okalar=
# <f85v2.C3> # Not transcribed yet
# around small circle near SW corner, NW half, clockwise
<f85v2.D1.1;U>     *ar.odaiin.or-{gap}
#
# around small circle near SW corner, SE half, counterclockwise
<f85v2.D1.2;U>     o.dar.air,*-{gap}
#

	John

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Jorge Aveleira
Sent: Monday, July 07, 2003 12:16 PM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: VMs: F85_86=VMS codepage?_2


I wrote:

> The provoking, long-lasting impenetrability shown by the VMS against well
> equipped, capable and qualified minds, should have persuaded many
> challengers that some unusual formula was used to build the ciphertext. A
> formula that per chance yields more or less similar output strings for
> different inputs and conversely, depending on the alternate coding module
> that is in use could be the answer? That would produce a ciphertext both
> accurate and ambiguous, could account somehow for the low overall entropy
of
> the VMS, repeated words, the absence of disclosing correlations with
likely
> plaintext languages, and should be within the context available to a
> medieval encipherer. The issue of average "shorter" words would still
> remain, though.
>
> If a codepage exists inside the VMS for reading it, following some scheme
> similar to Steve Ekwall's proposal, it could perhaps be the f85_86
rosettes
> (Sephiroth?) composition page, as the spatial arrangement is fitting. I
feel
> particularly inclined to explore that, as I regard that composition as a
> crucial component of VMS.  How about comparing/correlating the "words" in
> the text rings around the rosettes with the rest of the VMS vocabulary,
> section by section, Currier's A and B languages in separate (hmmm... two
> encipherers picking codemodules differently from the same codepage ?),
page
> by page, paragraph by paragraph, including and excluding Eva's f,k,p,t,
ch?
> I do not have the means for doing that properly myself.
>
> Nick recently made available at http://www.voynich.info/phpwiki/ fair
> reproductions of the elements in the f85_86 rosettes folio. Stolfi's pages
> are currently a standard source for the transcribed VMS text, however they
> do not include yet the text rings around rosettes NE, E and SE. I also did
> not find a transcription either at Landini's or Reeds' pages. Could some
of
> the VMS list members tell me if there is available somewhere a
transcription
> of those three text rings?

I simply feel unable to accept that my former plea for information and
cooperation
has not attracted the interest, help or even the sympathy of a reply
from a single member from VMS list. My plea was made on reasonable grounds,
and complies with  a sensible line of reasoning that I am trying to
demonstrate since my first post to the list. Moreover, the lack of a
transcription for the text in the sephiroth* NE, E and SE of folio 85_86  is
a small but unbecoming deficiency in the overall set of publicly available
VMS  resources, as some VMS list members are probably able to read and
transcribe "voychinese" characters through EVA as swiftly as I can read the
roman alphabet.
*As for myself, definitively no more of that "rosettes" classification.

Hopefully,
Jorge Aveleira


Rene wrote:
"I'd like to point out again that the labels in the zodiac section (i.e. the
about 300 labels near the nymphs) do not follow Zipf's first law. The
distribution can't really be distinguished from a flat distribution. "

Well, then those rings of words in the zodiac section may not contain any
portions of text, but simply collections of labels or substantives. The way
I understood it, Zipf's law would not apply to such collections of words.
Perhaps some of  those label rings are transcription modules for coding the
VMS text?

>From the Sepher  Yetzirah: http://golden-dawn.org/sepher_yetzirah.html
translation by W.W.Westcott: "...has induced me to translate this tractate
from the original Hebrew texts, and to collate with them the Latin versions
of mediaeval authorities..."
"The twenty-two sounds and letters are the Foundation of all things. Three
mothers, seven doubles and twelve simples....
These twenty-two letters, which are the foundation of all things, He
arranged as upon a sphere with two hundred and thirty-one gates, and the
sphere may be rotated forward or backward, whether for good or for evil;...
These Three Mothers did He produce and design, and combined them; and He
sealed them as the three mothers in the Universe...
The Seven double letters, Beth, Gimel, Daleth, Kaph, Peh, Resh, and Tau have
each two sounds associated with them. They are referred to Life, Peace,
Wisdom, Riches, Grace, Fertility and Power...
These Seven Double Letters point out seven localities; Above, Below, East,
West, North, South, and the Palace of Holiness in the midst of them
sustaining all things..."

Did anyone already attempted to find/identify/count those 231 gates, or
words (?) in the VMS?. That would probably require examining/sorting the
labels in the Zodiac section (two signs are lost) plus the labels in the
rings around the nine sephiroth.

I would feel happy if I could locate a translation of the straight ancient
Jewish text, and perhaps even  an illustration of the Sephirotic tree, older
than thirteenth century, as free as possible of accretions from mediaeval
authorities.

Thank you,
Jorge Aveleira

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