Re: VMs: RE: Yet another page

[ajb <ajb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

In message <DJEOJIIHHOEOJPMMOPKDIEBNCEAA.glenclaston@xxxxxxxxxxx>, GC
<glenclaston@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes
>
>
>The list goes on, but in the end a far greater number of "dense" pages turn
>out to be rectos than versos, after taking into account the amount of dark
>shading in each plant figure, and therefore the density of the coloring.
>This would tend to indicate that this occurred after the book was bound,
>probably caused by moisture over a period of time, and that the book was
>placed on its front cover laying flat for an unknown (and probably extended)
>period of time, not sitting on a shelf upright.  That it was protected from
>direct moisture, but not from seasonal damp.
>

I always understood that (supposing the VMS to be 15th century, as
appears very likely) books of this period were usually stored lying flat
on the shelf, probably in a chest or press - 'cupboard' - rather than
upright as we do with books now, even when they were in regular use. A
seldom-handled volume might well end up at the bottom of a stack and
indeed be in a 'press'.

>I did this study some time ago, but never felt a need to write it up,
>thinking it was an obvious feature of the VMS.  I also once pondered that
>the lighter bleed-through on the verso side might mean that the book was
>laid face up for awhile, then moved, and eventually came to rest face down.
>That would be pure speculation.  Gravity however, would overcome capillarity
>action, etc., and make the transfer operate in more of a "down" direction,
>causing the particles to fill pores in the vellum in a downward manner, and
>with damp provide a path of least resistance downward.  It wouldn't overcome
>all capillarity, so some "upward" transfer is possible.  This all depends on
>size and density of the "color" particles in the ink and water-colors
>involved.
>
>This is of course an amateur forensic observation, and a fuller examination
>of this phenomenon might yield much greater detail.
>
>GC

Some 'back of an envelope' calculations suggest that capillary
attraction would be significantly stronger that gravitational effects. 

This is also an
>amateur forensic observation
and of course YMMV. But I think the whole question of analysis of
"bleed-through" is very significant and I hope that there are better
scientists than I on this list.
>
>
>
>
>

Regards

Anthony
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
>> Behalf Of Nick Pelling
>> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 6:23 AM
>> To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: RE: VMs: RE: Yet another page
>>
>>
>> Hi GC,
>>
>> At 19:38 24/07/2003 -0500, GC wrote:
>> >Nick wrote:
>> > > I'm quite sure (from all the subtle bleed-across) that the
>> folios in the
>> > > first quire are in the same order that they were in when it was
>> > > painted up
>> > > - from that, I infer that they're probably in the correct order.
>> <...snip...>
>> >In addition, we must also consider that the majority of the
>> "bleed-through"
>> >was a factor of time and repeated changes of seasons, i.e, some damp
>> >involved.  At least 200 years on a shelf or in a box, never opened, may
>> >account for transfers seen in this mss that are not visible in
>> "better read"
>> >manuscripts of the same age.  In fact, the "bleed-through" in the VMS is
>> >rare as manuscripts go, even at an age of 500 years, give or take.
>>
>> Are we talking about the same thing here? I'm talking about colours
>> bleeding *across* pages, not *through* pages.
>>
>> As examples, I'd point to:-
>> f3v - f4r       curve at top
>> f4v - f5r       spot at top
>> f5v - f6r       transfer 25% down
>> f6v - f7r       symmetrical smudge in centre
>> (f13v - f14r    old binding marks down centre?)
>> f19v - f20r     three flowers at top
>> f26v - f27r     transfer from top right to top left
>> f29v - f30r     faint transfer at top
>> f31v - f32r     flowers at top
>> f32v - f33r     flower 25% down by edge (note - between quires!)
>> f44v - f45r     parallel mark 25% down ?
>> f49v - f50r     flower at top
>> f55v - f56r     shapes near top (overlapping text)
>> f94v - f95r1    three shapes near centre
>>          (note that this points to the page being "concertina-ed" rather
>> than folded in)
>>
>> These all:-
>> (1) appear only on herbal pages
>> (2) tend to be near the top or near the central binding gutter
>> (3) appear not to coincide with any apparent water marks or damage to the
>> vellum
>>
>> My interpretation of these is that some (if not all) of the painting was
>> done after binding (or, at least, after arranging into quires and loosely
>> binding).
>>
>> Caveat #1: I don't have colour references for most of these
>> pages, so can't
>> tell if all this bleed-across is associated with particular colours.
>>
>> Caveat #2: I also can't tell if the exact positions of these bleed-across
>> transfers is coincident with the binding as we see it today - if it is,
>> then we can be reasonably sure that (at least some) painting was done
>> post-binding.
>>
>> One hypothesis that might tie this all up could be that the so-called
>> "heavy painter" painted *after* binding, but the rest of the painting was
>> done *before* binding. We'd probably need colour pictures (and a proper
>> study of the binding in situ) to determine whether this was the
>> case, though/
>>
>> Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
>>
>> PS: f93v appears to have some bleed-across from the last page of the
>> missing quire 16 - it looks as though (the last page of) the
>> missing quire
>> 16 was also a herbal! :-o
>>
>>
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ajb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

        "If the self is an illusion, who is being fooled?"
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