Re: VMs: NSU review of Rugg (2003)...

[ekwall2@xxxxxxxx]

-=>se<=- :-)

Quoting Gordon Rugg <g.rugg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:

> Dear Gabriel,
> 
> Gabriel Landini wrote:
> 
> > On Thursday 18 December 2003 08:46, Gordon Rugg wrote:
> > > padding to surround a meaningful ciphertext. At present, using Occam's
> > > razor, the hoax hypothesis looks like the simplest explanation,
> >
> > I am interested to know what makes you believe so.
> > So far the only argument seems "because it cannot be read".
> 
> There are two reasons. One is that there are various hypotheses which are
> compatible with the table and grille; the main ones are:
> 1: meaningless gibberish with no meaningful text
> 2: meaningless gibberish as padding, plus some meaningful text
> 3: meaningful text
> 
"IT'S MEANINGFUL "and Good for ALL" " "3?"

> I've identified a couple of ways in which the table and grille could be used
> for
> reversible encoding of material. It's possible to eliminate the first fairly
> definitely, because of the degree of repetition in successive words of the
> manuscript. The second also appears unlikely to have been used because of
> the
> degree of repetition between successive lines of the manuscript.
> 
> So, in relation to the three main hypotheses above, I think we have:
> 1: possible, using table and grille
> 2: possible, but no evidence at present for the presence of any meaningful
> text
> 3: unlikely with the coding mechanisms I've identified, and no evidence at
> present for the use of a different coding mechanism

"MECHANICAL (duh OLD STUFF/technique) PAPER FOLDING KEY" (then Rotate/FLIP IT)
\ The Rotate makes it unique (on gallows character / as there are 8 of them \

> 
> In brief, I'm simply saying that the manuscript can be explained as a hoax
> containing only meaningless gibberish; there's no evidence at present of any
> meaningful text hidden among gibberish. That doesn't mean that we can
> definitely
> exclude meaningful text, and I'd be delighted if someone found some.
> 
> >
> >
> > Other Occam's razors are possible.
> >
> > > I think that a fruitful way forward would be to identify the parts of
> the
> > > VMS which could be produced using tables and grilles, and see what's
> left;
> > > if there is a ciphertext, it would probably be in the remaining bits.
> >
> > That is interesting too. How complex should this grille have to be to
> explain
> > ALL the vms?
> >
> 
> I suspect that about seven or eight tables were used; I don't know how many

"Eight (8) is correct *see "TTT" folding* :-)-=>se/es<=-" 

> grilles. That suspicion comes from two directions. From attempting to
> replicate
> the manuscript, I found that the table needs to be changed periodically, and
> producing a manuscript the size of the VMS would take about half a dozen
> tables.
> From the textual evidence in the manuscript, I suspect that the difference
> between Voynich A and B reflects table A1 and table B1; other sections of
> the
> manuscript are probably derived from modifications to table A1 and table B1
> (e.g.
> table A2, table B2, etc).
> 
> You can produce some pretty sophisticated restrictions on character
> distributions
> very easily using tables and grilles - for instance, two characters which
> are
> individually equally common, but where one is four times as common before a
> third
> character as the other. It's easy to alter the relative proportions, ranging
> from
> no co-occurrence to total co-occurrence. For entropy levels, Letter Serial
> Correlation, etc, you should be able to manipulate values by changing the
> degree
> of regularity in the table layout (e.g. a "qo" in every fourth prefix cell,
> a
> "shek" in every sixth midfix cell, etc). That would also probably be affected
> by
> the way you broke down a word. I've used Stolfi's analysis for convenience,
> but I
> suspect that Nick Pelling and/or Philip Neal are more likely to be correct.
> 
> For what it's worth, there are also some things that can be done with tables
> and
> grilles which appear not to have been used in the VMS. Examples include
> vowel
> harmony, a simulacrum of case and tense endings, and phrases. I suspect that
> some
> of these are deliberate omissions (for instance, the presence of apparent
> case
> and tense endings would significantly reduce the number of plausible
> ciphering
> systems which a would-be cracker needed to consider), but that's a guess.
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Gordon
> 
> 
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Gabriel
> >

ps: the "Tables" your seeking are SIMPLE ENOUGH to keep in your head (like the 
alphabet front-to back, back to front in pre-ordained "positionings") and can 
be DONE at a whim if/WHEN required. (AND the TIME IS NOW !!!!) (es) 

I may *pop* in and out here, as my ISP was resold (again, sigh :-( to 
access1.com? in hawaii (hilo.com)?   majordomo help (ha.haa)!!! I'm around the 
world already and never left the barn here :-)

IF this even makes it to the VMS list... please reconsider:
1:Folding your KEY (my Diac.com page now down temp: did any one grab it?)
2:FLIPing your KEY on C_gallows_C (or visa verse gallows)
3:Insert (suspected /not english) LANGUAGE of choice in TTT quadrants.
4:Go with the ~FLOW~ of the gallows (per page START gallows/ & paragraphs)
5:8 KEYS TOTAL (THAT is is & good SIMPLER than you THOUGHT - eh?)

The Lower case vms characters (non-gallows)are _positioning "pointers"_ to the 
TTT key you are on. EACH "individual character" can be a pointer to any (static 
area) of the 8 KEYS so never lose your PATH or Positioning. ALWAYS START AT TOP 
OF PAGE! (beginning section/folio etc..)



best to you & yours
-=se=-
steve (Occam WAS right :-) ekwall
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