RE: VMs: F66r

["John Grove" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

	Naah.. When the pizza comes out, it means somebody really has proven
something.
Even the simplest things like defining an alphabet or being confident of the
page order
is difficult with this puzzle - perhaps because we inflict more doubt than
is necessary
on the obvious signs or project believable scenarios onto the manuscript
until we think
they are obvious signs.

	It's fun - and the pizza will wait.

	John.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 2004 6:28 PM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: VMs: F66r


When and if you get the pizza you guys will be having a food fight with it.

Jeff

----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Pelling" <incoming@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: 15 June 2004 10:40
Subject: RE: VMs: F66r


> Hi John,
>
> At 18:37 14/06/2004 -0400, John Grove wrote:
> >(1) We have a document which appears to have been bound out of order.
> >Evidence: the well-known plumbing mismatch in the balneo section, and
from
> >the Currier A/B bifolio mixups throughout the herbal section - and there
> >are also indications that the balneo section is misordered in other ways.
> >
> >         > Um... yeah. The 'plumbing' mismatch and A/B mixups are
speculative
> >assumptions that lead one to believe things are out of order, but hardly
> >offer proof. Sure, I would love to say the plumbing mismatch is absolute
> >evidence of mis-order - but it could just be coincidence that they line
up
> >so neatly.
>
> If you print out the (double-sided) balneo bifolios, fold them as they are
> folded now, but then reorder them to match all the various features
> together, you'll find that there is only one correct order possible. I
> described this on-list ages ago, IIRC.
>
> Sure, that's still a "speculative assumption" - but unlike most, it's one
> grounded in close observation and actual experimentation. Perhaps
> "speculative assumption" is an irregular noun:
>          (I have a) hypothesis
>          (You (sing.) have a) speculative assumption
>          (He has a) ridiculous idea
>          (We have a) scientific consensus
>          (You (pl.) have an) alternative [but faulty] viewpoint
>          (They have a) mass delusion
>
> >         > There is no evidence here to suggest that the quiration wasn't
> > done by
> >the original author (as you suggest the numbering system used is much
older
> >than
> >those in the foliation), I agree that the foliation certainly wasn't.
>
> Errrm... what about the mislaid quire signatures? As I mentioned, I think
> quire 9 was back to front (with its outermost bifolio wrapped around the
> others) when it had its quire signature added: I don't think it likely
that
> the original author would have got that so wrong.
>
> Similarly, quire 20 was signed back to front, and that doesn't even have
> any fold-out pages to confuse the quire signer.
>
> Furthermore, the balneo quire (quire 13) is signed on an out of order
page,
> IIRC - which would mean that the pages were already out of order when the
> quires were signed.
>
> I conclude that the quires were almost certainly signed after the bifolios
> had been misordered, by someone who only superficially examined the quires
> - and that the folios were numbered yet later by someone who examined them
> more closely (and who turned the back-to-front quires round the right way
> etc). The rough dating of the various hands (as described) supports this
view.
>
> Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
>
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