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Re: VMs: Re: VMS images and copyright



Hi Dana, all

I agree - don't assume homespun copyright legal opinions are sound.  We might get stung and also create some really bad vibes which could hold back our work.

I'd like to suggest something even more positive than just asking for permission - although that must be a minimum.

Why not offer to do a really good job of producing a printed version and do it for Beinecke, for ourselves, and for profit (the person(s) who actually do it should take the cash)?

I suspect that Beinecke have higher resolution master files, as Gabriel suggests, and they might be able to work with whoever wants to actually compile the printed item to produce a really high quality artefact (I know that they have files with colour matching strips on them - they told me - and those would be needed for printing to get the colours really carefully controlled).

So - go to them with a worked out proposition, a business plan even!

Cheers

William


DANA SCOTT wrote:
Hello All,

If I were to make a digital image of say the original Mona Lisa and put it 
out on a website, it seems to me that even though the original artwork is on 
display in a museum, the digital copy which I made at my own expense belongs 
to me. Even though Beinecke has graciously not included their watermark on 
the digitized images, their images are clearly identifiable by the folio 
hold down plastic strip (and yes, I realized that the strip can be digitally 
removed). The steps to be taken here seem simple and straightforward, get 
written permission from Beinecke (or is this too much trouble or maybe we 
are afraid of being denied) to use their images in any publications desired, 
regardless of any perceived or implied interpretation of copyright law (laws 
may change and be reinterpreted, even across state or provincial lines; 
there may also be implied copyright protection for what is in the public 
domain); and secondly, be absolutely sure to give recognition (in this case 
to Beinecke) where recognition is due. Finally, I would think that these two 
procedures would be a minimum necessity whenever any form of profit may be 
realized. I would caution anyone to attempt to interpret local and 
international law without legal representation (which I would think might be 
"easily" realized through written permission from Beinecke). I am a bit 
concerned that Beinecke may be put into a position of having to place 
restrictions on the use of images that were made and "published" on the 
internet in the public domain. Remember that Yale has a reputation to 
maintain and might not be so pleased to see their images in "unauthorized" 
publications. I realize that what I have said here can be argued ad 
infinitum, but I suggest that (and I am not implying otherwise) we remain up 
front and forward with our intentions concerning the Beinecke digital 
images. I think it is in our own best interest. Just my two pence worth.


Regards,
Dana Scott


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Walter Ogburn" <ogburn@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2004 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: VMs: Re: VMS images and copyright


  
Hi Jan,

In the end I agree with you about what we should do, but I want to be 
clear on
the reasons.  Let's break this up into two different categories.  The 
first
category is the law, and the second is courtesy.

The law:

No copyright really does mean no control.  On what basis can this be
contested?  Any agreement between the library and the authors of the
Churchill / Kennedy book is irrelevant to the rest of us, because a 
contract
can only bind the parties to that contract.  The Bridgeman decision and 
the
library's own response to GC agree that these images are in the public
domain.  That means no legal restrictions at all, and permission is
completely irrelevant.  I suggest reading the Bridgeman decision - it's 
quite
readable and considers a very similar situation.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/copyright/cases/36_FSupp2d_191.htm

Courtesy:

We should respect the effort and money that have gone into making these
images.  Proper attribution and credit are certainly in order, and any
commercial product using the images should seek the library's blessing 
first.
It seems that all they ask is proper acknowledgement and a courtesy copy.
This is very reasonable and we should honor it.  This is where I 
completely
agree with you, but as a matter of good manners, not a legal obligation.

I hope this makes things clearer.
- Walter


On Sunday 20 June 2004 04:30 am, Jan wrote:
    
Hello Walter,



======= At 2004-06-19, 21:41:00 you wrote: =======

      
(If they don't hold copyright, then Beinecke has no legal control at 
all -
you can use and distribute them for free, for profit, modified,
unmodified, whatever you want.)
        
This statement can be surely contested. True, they could not have made 
it
more public then by posting  it on net with encouragement for downloads.
But that's where their permission stops - they  did incurred high 
expenses
for the scanning etc., so profiteering is certainly out of line and 
anybody
who would charge more than expenses for the copies  could be branded 
that
way.

All this is actually only a speculation. Why don't you directly tell
Beinecke what you intend to do and ask their permission?  Especially 
when
you will charge only expenses? They of course do have the right  to be 
the
first to do that themselves. If they decline, they may not have further
grounds for refusing the approval, but that is still not enough.  On the
other hand, the coincidence of VM scanning and the new book by
Churchill/Kennedy  may suggest  that the initiative for scanning came 
from
authors. After all, one of the authors is the relative of Mr. Voynich. 
Now
if for instance the above book may present some scans as well, you may 
have
a problem  - we do not know what their agreement was.

Jan





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-- 
Dr William H Edmondson
School of Computer Science
University of Birmingham
Edgbaston B15 2TT
United Kingdom

Voice  -  +44-121-414-4763
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