Re: VMs: VMS provenance

[Dennis <tsalagi@xxxxxxxx>]

Jan wrote:
> 
> While points 1. and 2. appear to be mutually exclusive, the work on them is not and the proof of the one (that is  the finding the solution!) would actually eliminate the other one.   We may find out that the both  attempts will reach the same target, that is the SOLUTION and only at the end we can tell, if the result is 1. or 2.

	Yes.  How does one prove that the VMs is *not*
gibberish?  I think the only way is to find a
meaningful solution.   

	However.  Would it be enough to turn Rugg's method
around?   One can use his method to generate valid
English words and simple sentences.  However, these are
vacuous, like 'unlovely pieces think'.  Does that mean
that English is gibberish?  I think that is a good
argument against what Rugg has done.  

	Some more thoughts.  Although Rugg's systematic hoax
would have been feasible at the time, is it in
accordance with the mindset of the time?  I think not. 
If the hoaxer used a reasonable number of tables and
grilles, wouldn't we see more repetition between pages
than we do?  

> Let's define what we actually mean by a hoax: the encoded gibberish or meaningful, but not too
> interesting text - or even the copy of valuable text - pretending to be quite  old? 

	Or something like the third book of Trithemius'
Steganographia: somewhat more meaningful than 'unlovely
pieces think', but still not of real interest, more
like a textbook exercise.  

http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~reedsj/steg.html

	A good point here is Rene's observation that human
beings are not at all good at producing random strings,
as radioactive decay or thermal noise will.  They are
much more likely to produce something with a pattern. 
Glossalalia, spoken or written, comes the closest to a
random human production as anything I have heard of. 
We have little if any information of what this is
like!  

	I am struggling with all this with Hamptonese.  There
is more likelihood there that Hamptonese is written
glossalalia.  Stamp thinks that's what it is, due to
his HMM.  However, I think I've discovered at least one
flaw in his reasoning there.  I am still looking for
repeated 'words' in Hamptonese.  There are also
parallel passages and bilinguals in the 'drawings'
pages in the Hampton corpus.  I haven't done much,
because I wanted to look at the new VMs scans, and also
because I am nursing my system back to health after a
virus attack.  ;-(   More when I have it.  

Dennis
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