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Re: VMs: Occitan months...?
Hi Dennis,
I am not sure Jacques is far away and anyhow I cannot pretend to replace him.
However here is perhaps an interesting site:
I am especially aiming in it at:
Ancien français et patois
Montaillou is otherwise a great historical book for the background of Middle Ages in Southern France. Curiously enough and as you may already know, we are very near of Levitov's (IMHO at least partly wrong)story of Cathars.
The truth is that Oc was at that time a quite different civilization in France than Oil, that Cathars were the symbols of the first one, that they were chosen as foes by the Papal authority and the king of France and that they subsequently were a bit slaughtered....
At that time yes you are right the "trobadores" were with some more religion-oriented monks the best bearers of the Oc/Provençal tradition ( we here are dealing with the XIIIth and XIVth centuries or so ). VMS interesting is perhaps the fact that they called their movement the"trobar cluz" or hidden knowledge. A long story in a nutshell, I am aware of this.
Jean
Dennis <tsalagi@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
It's too bad Jacques isn't back, since he knows the
most about languages!
In *Montaillou* by Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie, about a
medieval Occitan village 1300-1330, the author notes
that Occitan was very close to Catalan at that time.
Also, I've seen collections of medieval Occitan poetry
and prose, apparently distinct from Provencal, so it
wasn't just a lingua franca at all, but a literary
language. The question would rather be, how distinct
was it at that time from Provencal (southeastern
France) and Catalan. Everyone knows of the great
medieval literature in Provencal.
Also, for our discussion, what was the orthography
like at that time? Remember that it was always lax in
"common" languages then.
Finally. I think it's pretty well accepted that the
VMs author did not write the zodiac labels. So this
would be!
a matter
of finding more about where and in
whose hands the VMs had been after its composition.
Dennis
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