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Re: VMs: Modern Astrology vs. Traditional Astrology

Hi, Rene

Thank you for your interest in this discussion!
I realize this material does not particularly concern
you.  In fact I can't blame you at all for deleting
posts that hold no interest for you.  I do the same
thing.  Yet I also have observed that you have
patience and goodwill to encourage others to pursue
their own interest in technical discussions.  You may
certainly be assured  that if you were discussing the
historical antecedents and provenance of specific
crpytology techniques or styles, I would support you
by extending the same courtesy you have extended to

The reference to Jung and alchemy fits into the
discussion in this way:

Nick was reiterating a belief that Ficino was the
originator of "modern psychological" astrology; his
argument was that therefore Ficino was perhaps "too
modern" to have contributed to the astrology of the

In my mind, the originator of "modern psychological" 
is a position dominated by Jung, not Ficino, for three

First, there is no continuous technical tradition of
astrology from Ficino to Jung.  We had a nearly
two-hundred year lapse in the practice and publication
of astrology prior to the twentieth century, and
traditional techniques such as those used by Ficino
were not "reconstituted" until the final two decades
of the twentieth century.  It only takes reading
Charles Boer's early twentieth century translation of
the technical astrology of Ficino to see how little
was understood of the techniques Ficino used.

Secondly, the science of psychology did not exist
until the turn of the twentieth century, and as far as
I know, Jung was the one who first thought of using
astrology as a psychological tool.

Thirdly, Ficino was influenced by, and was himself a
practitioner of "traditional astrology".  He read both
Greek and Latin, and translated Plato into Latin for
his contemporaries.   He had complete acess to
historic materials, traditions, and techniques. IMHO,
this puts him in a completely different category as an
astrologer than those who followed him in the
twentieth century.  

Now as you are aware, Jung was very well-read in
medieval esoterism; conceptually, if not in the
application of astrological technique.  So my point
is, why attribute the inception of "modern
psychological" astrology to Ficino when Jung, who
started the movement, most likely studied other older
ideas like alchemy, and read from sources like the
neoplatonists and Hermes Trismegistus, and was likely
influenced by them as well?  

Neoplatonism is older.  Why are the neoplatonists not
the initiators of "modern psychological" astrology?

Plato is older still. . .I think you get my drift.

Again, thank you for your interest in this rather
technical discussion!



--- Rene Zandbergen <r_zandbergen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Dear all,
> --- Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> [major snipping here]
> > And as for those who claim Ficino as the first
> > "modern
> > psychological" astrologer, I believe they have no
> > idea
> > what they are saying about the actual practice of
> > astrology, and are reading "trends in astrology"
> > backwards from Jung.  Jung dabbled in alchemy,
> after
> > all. . .
> Maybe you did not mean to write it the way this
> sounds. Is anyone interested in alchemy disqualified
> as being "serious" enough to discuss astrology?
> To me, alchemy is a precursor to chemistry and
> physics as we now know it, and astrology is 
> a precursor to astronomy as we now know it.
> I could go on about this, but will not, since
> possibly
> I misunderstood what you wrote.
> As regards Elmar Vogt's comments: yes, astrology
> is totally relevant to the Voynich MS, and this 
> is an unmoderated list, but I also got the
> impression
> that the discussion was digressing a bit. I had
> in fact stopped reading these E-mails until a new
> name (Elmar's) appeared with the same subject
> line :-)
> Cheers, Rene
> __________________________________
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