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Re: VMs: The third crowned nymph (in Libra)...?

Hi, Nick

Thanks for your previous post clearing up my reference
to rulership of Cancer and Leo.

Lots of good information here; thank you.  That site
on the fixed stars is very informative.  I use it
constantly.  Just be careful of "modern"
interpretations of the meaning of the stars, which are
very different in content (I mean post-1700) and of
course would not apply in VMs times.

One point of clarification:  Zubeneschamali, although
located in the constellation Libra, is found in the
sign of Scorpio.  Currently at 19 Scorpio, we could
subtract 7 degrees to get back to approximate VMs
dates (I'm saying 500 years ago), which would put
Zubeneschemali at 12 Scorpio at the time of the VMs.

This is based on the calculation that approximately
every 72 years, the stars appear to move forward one

If the nymph is thought to be in the sign Libra, my
vote is cast for Spica, which is held to be the most
benefic planet in the heavens.  Why deal with anything
less than the best?  Smile.  Spica is now at 23 Libra;
subtract 7 and you have 16 Libra at the time of the
VMs.  Hmmm . . . using your system, perhaps this is an
indication that the VMs postdates 1500 by about 72
years, giving us your 17 Libra location?

I do wish we had different names for constellations
and signs!  It would save some confusion.  Sigh.



--- Nick Pelling <nickpelling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi everyone,
> The brightest star in Libra (which is ruled by
> Venus, astrologically) is 
> historically thought to be Zubeneschamali, which I
> don't believe has been 
> mentioned on-list before. :-) There's a
> long-standing tradition that this 
> star has a greenish tinge: and perhaps it did,
> several hundred years ago 
> (though it does seem white today):-
>          Although Libra is not the most exciting
> constellation in terms of
>          "deep-sky wonders" for small telescopes, it
> contains a curious
>          star that has been cause for discussion for
> centuries. The star's
>          name is Zubeneschamali, or easier to
> remember, the "Northern Claw".
>          The debate began with the Greek astronomer
> Eratosthenes. (He's
>          the one who made the first almost-dead-on
> calculation of the
>          circumference of the Earth in 240 BC or
> thereabouts.) Eratosthenes
>          compiled a catalog of some 675 stars in
> which he measured their
>          position, and estimated their brightness
> and color. Zubeneschamali,
>          said Eratosthenes, was the brightest star
> in Libra and in Scorpius,
>          even outshining Antares, which we recognize
> as the brightest star
>          in that region today.
>          A century or so later, another Greek
> astronomer, Ptolemy, found
>          the star equal to Antares in brightness.
> ...
> BTW, the way I count the nymphs is innermost circles
> first, then clockwise 
> from sunrise (on the left): this makes the Libra
> crowned nymph roughly the 
> 17th degree of Libra. FWIW, William Lilly associated
> this degree with the 
> fixed star Seginus: and perhaps the two
> "semi-crowned nymphs" side-by-side 
> in Libra (just below the [left] ascendant on the
> outer ring) are Spica and 
> Arcturus?
>          http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html
> Here's a good site listing astrologically
> significant fixed stars. Note 
> that this lists different star positions in 1900 and
> in 2000: for example, 
> Seginus is apparently marked as being 16LIB60 in
> 1900 and 17LIB40 in 2000. 
> Are there any software apps which calculate the
> positions of these 
> (not-so-)fixed stars in history?
> http://www.winshop.com.au/annew/new_page_1.htm
> FWIW, the entry for Seginus (the left shoulder of
> Bootes, the ploughman) on 
> this site says:-
>          Manilius 1st century AD writes "they will
> be kings under kings and
>          ministers of state, and be charged with the
> guardianship of the 
> people,
>          custodianship of great houses and
> treasures, who confine their
>          business to the care of another's home so
> that the wealth of
>          monarchs and temple finances will be in
> their keeping".
>          Any type of occupation that requires
> planning is influenced by Bootes.
>          These people are the driving force behind
> government and large
>          corporations. They are the planners and
> designers, the movers and
>          shakers, who "make the world go round".
> Bootes symbolizes the
>          elder, the sage, the wise old man who is
> interested in principles
>          and underlying causes, theories,
> ideologies, and how the past
>          effects [sic] the future. (Conservative)
> politicians, economists,
>          draftsmen, architects, designers of all
> kinds.
> The same site's discussion of Antares links it to
> the Four Horsemen of the 
> Apocalypse (which links to the recent thread on
> Strega, where I mentioned 
> the Four Grigori, or Watchers), mirroring another
> October 2000 VMs-list 
> post by Bradley Schaefer:-
>          [Antares] is one of the four key stars in
> the heavens, also called
>          archangel stars. Michael (Aldebaran)
> watcher of the East. Gabriel
>          (Fomalhaut) watcher of the South. Raphael
> (Regulus) Watcher of
>          the North. Oriel (Antares) Watcher of the
> West. At one time they
>          marked the two Equinoxes and two Solstices.
> Aldebaran marked
>          the zero Aries point in 3044 BC, Antares
> marked zero Libra 3052
>          BC, Fomalhaut marked zero Capricorn, 2582
> BC, Regulus marked
>          zero Cancer 2345 BC. As one of the four
> Royal stars of Persia it's
>          name was Satevis; but, as their lunar
> asterism, it was Gel, the
>          "Red"; the Sogdians changing this to Maghan
> sadwis, the "Great
>          One" saffron-colored.
>          They have been characterized as Horses,
> reflected both in the famed
>          Four Horsemen of Apocalypse (Revelations 6)
> and Chariot Horses
>          in the Book of Zechariah.
> So: overall, the question is this: is the crowned
> nymph in Libra referring 
> to Zubeneschamali (Beta Lib), to Antares (which is
> actually in the 
> constallation Scorpius), to Seginus, or to something
> else again?
> FWIW, my current opinion (largely from the
> Regulus/Leo/Sun and 
> Sirius/Cancer/Moon connection) is that we're
> probably looking *not* at an 
> encoded version of the four horsemen of the
> apocalypse here, but rather at 
> an encoded star magnitude chart of some sort, one
> informed more by 
> astrology than by mythology. But your opinion may
> differ... :-o
> Cheers, .....Nick Pelling..... 
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"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."

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