Re: VMs: "Zodiac" signs and Regulus

[Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi, Rene

<<Normal star catalogues list the star's ecliptic
longitude. Paranatellonta are concerned with the
simultaneous rising of a star with a particular
degree of the zodiac (again expressed as longitude).>>

Yes, but what I'm failing to grasp is why one would
conclude that Regulus would rise anywhere other than
in Leo, unless, as you say, he was describing two
different epochs. . . but then why, as you believe,
show continuity of the signs of the Zodiac, if
different epochs were described in each one?  I'm lost
there.  

Paranatellonta, as I understand them, look at the
rising of a star, fixed or wandering; and the
simultaneous culmination or descent of other stars,
fixed or wandering.  Is your understanding otherwise? 
 

Are you saying that as Regulus was culminating, Libra
would be rising?  Please forgive me if I sound rude,
but I'm having trouble understanding how that could
be.  Regulus is now at 29 Leo; subtracting 7 degrees
for precession, say it was at 22 Leo during the time
of the VMs.  Twenty-two Leo is a scant thirty-eight
degrees from Libra.  There are three houses, on an
average of thirty degrees each (this changes depending
on location and time of year, since the earth is not
flat, as some maintain! Smile), between rising and
culmination.  Even using the coordinates of the North
Pole, that does not look probable.

I do find your idea about a star catalogue
interesting.  Adam Mclean says, of the third book of
the Steganographia,

"Trithemius here refers to a 'special book' in which
he has described the 'different parameters, the 700
stars, their names, places, settings, elevations,
distances, approachings and regressions'.  This
'special book' which obviously describes the key to
this operation has regrettably been lost."

<<The VMs author could have made his own, but then it
would seem to be lost.>>

Perhaps the reason we don't "find it" is that it is
hidden in the star references somehow?  

Interesting thoughts.

Warmly,

Pam

--- Rene Zandbergen <r_zandbergen@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 
> --- Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> > I thought you or someone said that there was a
> > crowned
> > nymph in Libra, one in Cancer, and one in Leo.  So
> > far, that makes three crowned nypmhs, each
> > illustrated
> > on a page of the Zodiac representing, as you
> > interpret
> > it, a different "sign".  Why would they all
> > represent the same star?
> 
> Normal star catalogues list the star's ecliptic
> longitude. Paranatellonta are concerned with the
> simultaneous rising of a star with a particular
> degree of the zodiac (again expressed as longitude).
> 
> Such longitudes are traditionally expressed as:
> (sign name) + (relative value from 0 to 30).
> These are already two possible values that could
> be shown in the VMs. Unfortunatly
> for my theory, for Regulus they are the same.
> 
> But what if the author wanted to list data for two
> epochs? Plenty of options to have the same
> star twice.
> 
> About the Libra case (where the main star is only
> seven points) I explained this previously
> (culmination of Regulus).
> 
> If the Greeks used to refer to the star as 
> Basiliskos, then the origin of the name Regulus
> is less important.
> 
> > Or, what about the ones under magnitude one? 
> > They are still brighter than magnitude 1 stars. 
> > Don't they count?
> 
> They were defined as such only much later.
> Ptolemy's catalogue was the reference for centuries.
> A new magitude estimation was made by As-Sufi
> around 900 or so (source: the same Robert van
> Gent :-) ).
> I never could lay hands on it.
> The next catalogue is Ulugh Begh's from about 1420,
> who worked in Samarkand (Persia). I don't know
> if he made new magnitude estimations.
> 
> In my personal opinion, I could imagine the 
> Voynich MS as a 'translation' of some existing
> documents, which could refer to existing star
> tables. The VMs author could have made his own,
> but then it would seem to be lost.
> 
> Cheers, Rene
> 
> 
> 
> 		
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=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."


		
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