Salut, Jean-Yves,
I hope you don't mind if I take this off-list, since the whole thread was
already fairly off-topic in the first place.
Don't mind on the first point, disagree on the second.
> Hi Elmar
>
> I wrote IMHO. Are you humble and polite? What are your arguments? What is your thesis? Is that all you have to tell us? "These people" should read Wikipedia?
This thread started out with a quote by Pamela, who stated:
IMO this is irrelevant, I am not Pam, even if my mail was on this thread, moreover I was writing on list, but to Mark. Neither to you, nor to Pam.
>>Ptolemy on the Shape of the Earth, from the Almagest,
>>> Book I, Ch. 4.:
>>>
>>> "Now, that also the earth taken as a whole is sensibly
>>> spherical, we could most likely think out in this way.
>>> For again it is possible to see that the sun and moon
>>> and the other stars do not rise and set at the same
>>> time for every observer on the earth, but always
>>> earlier for those living towards the orient and later
>>> for those living towards the occident...And since the
>>> differences in the hours is found to be proportional
>>> to the distances between the places, one would
>>> reasonably suppose the surface of the earth
>>> spherical...
>
As you
see, it was pretty evident that Ptolemy assumed a spherical Earth,
and there is little point questioning this -- as would be obvious to anyone
following the thread with more than casual interest.
It s perhaps evident in this quotation, but this was not my point. My point was to tell Mark hey you are right, Eratosthenos actually did what you are thinking he did, here is some piece of evidence. An my point beyond this is that in the time of VMS this was not pretty easy to state, perhaps "scientifically incorrect", thus a possible explanation for the VMS to be ciphered.
IMO you are overevaluating the trend in the thread, a thread is a frame, as you surely know, if you want to do something really interesting, youhave to go beyond.
At this point I responded to Pamela out of sheer curiosity:
> That is pretty cool. How on Earth did he measure that...?
>
As you see, I was specifially referring to the East-West longitude problem,
which is a completely different (and much more difficult) question than the
North-South latitude problem. Yet, several people seemingly confused the two
and repeatedly explained how to solve the latitude question. (I had pointed
out the difference, but it seems nobody bothered to read.) I thought it was
appropriate then to point people to the Wikipedia where they could find an
explanation of the topic in question.
You are in your logic, but this only yours, not the logic of everybody, Pam perhaps and I surely are in another one, don't overevaluate your logic, the logic of the VMS list as a whole is to solve the riddle, if I understood well, and it has to capitalize on all logics if we want to succeed, even the wrong and evil ones, like mine (smiling).
I would like to add that this is a typical point, I am more interested in nature (earth is more or less a circle) and you are more interested in an artificial grid of measurement ( longitudes and latitudes ).
Finally, people don t need to be told to read Wikipedia, this was and is unpolite.
> Who are you to tell me and others what and how to read? Did you solve the riddle? Did I speak about longitude? Latitude? It started with...Did I start with? What is your conception of chat? Demolishing? What are you trying to demolish? Mortals...& regards,
I was making suggestions for further reading, and I was criticizing the lack
of attention to detail, admittedly using a pungent tone, because I was
losing patience with the carelessness of several posters. If you are beyond
criticism and already possess profund knowledge in all topics relevant,
please disregard my lines.
I tried and suggested you that nobody is beyond criticism, I am not you are not, the one who will solve the riddle will perhaps at the end be...
When several posters as you say are developping a pet theory they are of course irritating other ones, whose pet theory is quite diffferent. This should be understood. For instance (smiling) I love the Marco Polo story.
> Jean
>
> PS I have the right to an other opinion that yours. I am a free man.Don t try to intimidate me. No use. Try to speak about VMS. My point is that VMS is Ptoleamaic and Copernical. What is yours?
I'm not trying to intimidate anyone, and I never denied your right to a
different opinion. The key word in my signature is "uninformed." You can
find a more detailled explanation of what the line means on the author's
webpage:
http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/PSEUDOSC/dutchrules.htm
Essentially, it is meant to say "If you've got nothing to contribute, you'd
rather stay quiet." This line is attached to my mails regularly; it wasn't
specifically addressed towards you. OTOH, if shoe fits, wear it.
I kow it was not, but here again I disagree; you think that I have nothing to contribute, it is your right, but then you have to argue, not to insult; moreover the sentence is wrong too, this would deny freedom of opinion at the end, and does not fit IMO with the spirit of the list. Your are not the moderator, you don't wear the responsability of the VMS...
Please be more patient, at the end you don't know what is relevant or not.
Cheers,
Elmar
Cheers,
Jean
--
Elmar Vogt / Königswarterstr. 18 / 90762 Fürth / GERMANY
elvogt@xxxxxxxxxxx / www.beamends.de / Tel.: (++49/0)911 - 31 52 58
"You have no right to an uninformed opinion." (Steve Dutch)
This IMO leads to Inquisition and dictatorshp. And not to the solution of VMS riddle. Jean