Re: VMs: OT: Ptolemy

[Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>]

Don:

If you want to understand the astrology practiced in
the time of the VMs, that is the type of astrology I
recommend you study, not the stuff you can read about
on the comic pages of the newspaper or Jungian
archetypal "therapeutic" astrology.  

It's interesting that you mention the question of the
practitioner's degree of success with prediction.  How
very apt.  Astrology relies upon science (astronomy),
but its application to prediction is an art and
requires interpretive skill.  As I recall, the
question of different operators having different
degrees of success with prediction using astrology was
one of the things that scientists claimed made them
prefer more emperical studies.  So you see, even the
proposistion that we study historic astrological
techniques has already evoked protests which resonate
historic themes!  Wonderful. 

I propose the study of astrology with relation to the
VMs as a tool for understanding its times and the
thinking of the people who may have written it, not
necessarily for the use of group members as a
predictive tool or a secondary source of income. 
Although if group members develop their practice of
the art until they are able to locate missing items,
learn when their house will finally sell, predict when
a friend's wife will give birth, or when his test
results will finally reach him and what they will say.
. . then all the better for them.  

Of course if the study of astrology does not interest
or suit you, then you may simply wish to stick to
areas that interest you with regard to the VMs.  Your
ability to follow what transpires with regard to the
astrology of the VMs may be more limited, but, again,
that is your choice.

Warmly,

Pam

--- don latham <djl@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Pam:  If I remember the last time I looked into
> Astrology with my scientific
> eye, I found that modern practicioners still use the
> houses as if it were
> Ptolemy's time; that is ignore precession
> altogether.  There are even
> ephemeris tables to enable this practice.  Also, the
> psyc. literature
> contains some studies of astrology afflatus versus
> test derived afflatus
> (lovely word) finding that astrology is not a very
> good predictor. I do
> dimly remember casting my own horoscope as well as
> those of my immediate
> family, and finding that I could indeed twist the
> results to fit nicely.  As
> far as Jung, since a horoscope can be nicely
> manipulated to fit an
> individual, why not to fit an archetype or two.
> I do remember also our grad psyc study group forming
> the opinion that an
> astrological system might make a dandy projective
> test like the TAT or the
> Rorshach(sp?)
> Don
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pamela Richards" <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 7:32 AM
> Subject: Re: VMs: OT: Ptolemy
> 
> 
> > Hi, Rene
> >
> > With all due respect and much gratitude for your
> > patience, I suggest that we will see some
> > disagreements on the subject of astrology from
> time to
> > time.
> >
> > It's a controversial topic, the vagaries of which
> > unfortunately time has done little to mend.  The
> > absence of scientific interest in astrology during
> the
> > recent three hundred-odd years has done nothing to
> > clarify some of the points we are attempting to
> iron
> > out.
> >
> > Misunderstandings on this topic abound; since it
> is
> > possible or probable that the VMs either contains,
> > refers to, or emphasizes the subject matter of
> > astrology, our own perceptions of this topic seem
> to
> > form the larger context which, for most of us,
> frames
> > our understanding of the background of the VMs.  I
> > think this is what Glenn was trying to say when we
> got
> > onto the flat-earth matter.
> >
> > People no longer think about astrology as they
> > probably did in the time of the VMs.  It's not
> easy to
> > shift perceptions--if indeed they will bear
> > shifting--and it's kind of a messy process.
> >
> > Please pardon our dust.
> >
> > For anyone who finds my ideas peculiar or contrary
> to
> > what they have assumed or been taught about
> astrology,
> > I urge you to take the GC challenge (wink, thank
> you
> > for your patience and interest in technology,
> Glenn):
> > learn to cast a chart and interpret it according
> to
> > traditional techniques, and we will undoubtedly
> share
> > much more thinking about astrology in common.  By
> the
> > time you all are proficient astrologers, our
> > presuppositions and subsequent communications will
> be
> > much more clear.
> > But in the meanwhile you may find that you are
> > learning and re-learning quite a lot, just as I
> would
> > if I were to attempt to become a skilled
> > cryptographer.
> >
> > As ever grateful for your patience and
> forbearance,
> >
> > Warmly,
> >
> > Pam
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Rene Zandbergen <r_zandbergen@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Dear all,
> > >
> > > many books have been written about Ptolemy's
> > > work and all answers can be found there. I
> > > suspect that a web search will even be
> sufficient.
> > >
> > > His work includes a detailed description of the
> > > methods used. Spherical trigonometry etc.
> > >
> > > The one question not answered is whether the
> > > star tables are his own work (as he
> > > claims) or whether he used Hipparchus' data.
> > > This is a never-ending controversy of which
> > > we have no parallel in the study of the Voynich
> > > MS, which I hope we can concentrate on here.
> > >
> > > Cheers, Rene
> > >
> > >
> > >
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> >
> > =====
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> to teach ten thousand
> stars how not to dance."
> >
> >
> >
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