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Re: VMs: Re: Re: Stars or No Stars

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Subject: Re: VMs: Re: Re: Stars or No Stars
From: "don latham" <djl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 13:56:59 -0600
References: <BAY5-F6jJxWY5pCxlIC0004772e@hotmail.com>
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True, but is the thread considered to be the whole path between them?  I
guess I make a lot of the hinge star and the thread(s) because I think this
is the one star portrayed in the VMS which can be uniquely identified
(outside of the sun) and the name ascribed to it in the MS can be identified
with the names for that star no matter what the culture or language the VMS
represents.   I note that the statistics seem to indicate non-vowel Arabic
as a possible underlying language of the VMS (and to my shame cannot recall
who pointed this out). If that were the case, then the prefix represented as
Al- identified somehow with ol- holds up; many of the "star names" on the MS
zodiac pages begin with this "prefix" also.  Beyond that elementary
observation, I'm afraid I have nothing.
Don
----- Original Message -----
From: "DANA SCOTT" <dscott520@xxxxxxx>
To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 1:07 PM
Subject: RE: VMs: Re: Re: Stars or No Stars


> Hello Don,
>
> Thank you for your observations and comments.  I find it somewhat
> interesting that in the VMs there is no "Flaxen thread uniting Pisces".
The
> threads held in the mouths of the fish are distinct, each connected only
to
> a unique star.
>
> Regards,
> Dana Scott
>
>
>
>
> >From: "don latham" <djl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Reply-To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
> >To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Subject: VMs: Re: Re: Stars or No Stars
> >Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 12:53:58 -0600
> >
> >I'll iterate: The one star we "know" is the hinge star named "otolal" in
> >the
> >Pisces center. It is Al Rischa (Rescha). The "Flaxen thread uniting
Pisces"
> >is called Al H'ait al Kattani'yy. This from Star Names.  The hinge star,
> >Alpha Psc, is definitely displayed, so no matter the semantic tag, the
> >thing
> >displayed is that star.
> >Don
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Dana Scott" <dscott520@xxxxxxx>
> >To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 10:56 PM
> >Subject: VMs: Re: Stars or No Stars
> >
> >
> > > Hello Pam,
> > >
> > > I am not aware of a specific analysis focused on the stars in Pisces,
> >Virgo,
> > > and Scorpio having been made; however, a few basic observations might
> > > include the following.
> > >
> > > Instead of saying two stars for Pisces, perhaps it may be more
> >appropriate
> > > to say that there is one star associated with each "fish" connected by
> >its
> > > own thread. Notice that the line starting in front of the mouth of the
> >upper
> > > fish and curving down under the lower fish is separate from the fish,
> >stars,
> > > and thread. Having its own color, it appears to have been added after
> >the
> > > fact by an unknown confederate? There is a lone bearded dude in the
> >outer
> > > circle of tubs at about 4 o'clock. The majority of the stars seem to
be
> > > directly anchored at the tubs. Hands of the nymphs in the upright
outer
> >tubs
> > > are tucked away at their sides within the tubs. The folded designs
under
> >the
> > > tubs lying on their side in the inner circle may be some form of
> >encryption?
> > > Two of the tubs in the inner circle at 10 and 11 o'clock are reclining
> >and
> > > opposed which is similar to the positions of the Pisces.
> > >
> > > In Virgo all of the nymphs are naked, standing, facing left, stepping
> > > forward, with most of them holding a star in their left hand. Virgo,
on
> >the
> > > other hand, is dressed up to the gills, seated, facing in the opposite
> > > direction, with a diminutive star attached to a thread, held in her
> >right
> > > hand. There is also a counter balancing flower at her feet. Virgo,
> > > therefore, is depicted in stark contrast to her maidens. Why might
that
> >be?
> > > Notice that only a few of the stars around 1 o'clock have threads
> >extending
> > > from a lower point of the star. Most of the nymphs have breasts,
though
> >not
> > > all. Three of the nymphs around 10/11 o'clock have their hands clasped
> >in
> > > front of them. The inner circle nymph just after 12 o'clock high seems
> >to
> > > have her hands clasped behind her. We can see the feet of 2 of the
> >nymphs
> >at
> > > 1 and 2 in the inner circle as well as at 9 and 10. The well/pipe/tub
in
> > > which one of the nymphs is standing seems to be partly broken.
> > >
> > > Notice that Scorpio also appears to be facing in an opposite direction
> >from
> > > the nymphs with its right front leg lifted, whereas the nymphs have
> >their
> > > left leg up. Right arms in the outer circle are extended down and back
> >off
> > > the hip between 4 and 9. Only a few of the stars have threads. There
are
> > > four nymphs standing above the outer circle with the two nymphs on the
> >right
> > > having full length tresses. All (including Scorpio?) have breasts.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dana Scott
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Pamela Richards" <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 8:38 AM
> > > Subject: VMs: Stars or No Stars
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi, Dana
> > > >
> > > > Here's another question:  perhaps this has been
> > > > discussed already, but I have not found it in the
> > > > archives yet.
> > > >
> > > > Some of the "Zodiac" drawings have stars in them; some
> > > > have none.  Out of ten possible "signs", 3 "signs"
> > > > contain stars within the illustration.  Has anyone
> > > > proposed an explanation of this?
> > > >
> > > > The illustrations with stars are:
> > > >
> > > > Pisces, two stars
> > > > Virgo, one star
> > > > Scorpio, one star
> > > >
> > > > Please let me know if I've missed any.
> > > >
> > > > What has the thinking of the list been on this point?
> > > >
> > > > Warmly,
> > > >
> > > > Pam
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi, Dana
> > > > >
> > > > > For the record, I agree with you that the f73r
> > > > > illustration resembles a mammal much more than an
> > > > > arachnid or a six-legged reptile.
> > > > >
> > > > > When the author is using the illustrations of a
> > > > > hired
> > > > > artist, I believe some latitude for "bad scorpions"
> > > > > can be extended.  Perhaps the artist did not have
> > > > > references on hand which the astrologer normally
> > > > > would.  If the VMs author practices Western
> > > > > astrology,
> > > > > it seems reasonable to me that he would have been
> > > > > exposed to more than one conventional illustration
> > > > > of
> > > > > a scorpion by the time he wrote this document.  From
> > > > > my point of view, I can't imagine why he would
> > > > > choose
> > > > > to wander away and set up to illustrate and inscribe
> > > > > his document far from his source documents on
> > > > > astrology.
> > > > >
> > > > > That throws us back to provenance: the question of
> > > > > whether the document is Western, or other.  So many
> > > > > of
> > > > > the images have a Western orientation: the fashions,
> > > > > the buildings, the hairstyles, etc.  I opt for a
> > > > > Western author, one who is very interested in
> > > > > astrology (note the consistent theme of stars), and
> > > > > one who for whatever reason, intentionally proposed
> > > > > a
> > > > > very peculiar Zodiac, or its percieved equivalent.
> > > > >
> > > > > But, that's just one hypothesis among many.
> > > > >
> > > > > Warmly,
> > > > >
> > > > > Pam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- Dana Scott <dscott520@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > I am beginning to wonder if what we are seeing in
> > > > > > f73r might be the author's
> > > > > > rendition of Lupus, for unknown personal
> > > > > > astrological reasons?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >http://images.astronet.ru/pubd/2003/05/08/0001190093/constell/lup_600.jpg
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.hawastsoc.org/deepsky/lup/lupp.html
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Regards,
> > > > > > Dana Scott
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
______________________________________________________________________
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> > > > > > with a body saying:
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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > =====
> > > > > "I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to
> > > > > teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > __________________________________
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> > > >
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> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =====
> > > > "I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten
> >thousand
> > > > stars how not to dance."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > __________________________________
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> > > > Yahoo! Mail - You care about security. So do we.
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> > > >
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> >
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>
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References:
- RE: VMs: Re: Re: Stars or No Stars
  - From: DANA SCOTT
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