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Re: VMs: Link between Phaistos Disk & VMs...!?
> Though it's stretching the point to claim there's any kind of link with the
> VMs here, I just like the symmetry between John Stojko's Old Ukrainian VMs
> and Arthur Gleye's Old Estonian Phaistos Disk - and that's good enough for
> me. :-) BTW, does anyone know what Gleye thought the PD said?
> Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
Have been a silent monitor for quite some time. However, several recent
remarks have been hitting around the area being pursued here, including
yours. Specifically, I am following a line that suggests the VMS contains
the knowledge of Dicinius. Dicinius being a Getae/Dacian philosopher second
to the king. Jordanes/Lordanes has a history of the Getae including a
reference to the Getae wiseman teaching his people several branches of
learning including the names of some 300+ stars.
After the Dacian defeat depicted in Trajan's column the separate Dacian
culture appears to have been swallowed up, but at the time of Dio
Cassiodorus there was apparently a long oral tradition of the Getae history
in western Europe. The Jordanes history is fascinating pulling together and
suggesting histories of what is generally taken as mythology now, and
includes accounts into Egypt, the origin of the Amazon warriors, etc.
Dicinius (although often with slightly different spelling) is referred to by
other ancient historians including Herodotus and Strabo as well.
Interestingly, while the Dacian language is all but lost, it clearly was
once distinct with a sing/song inflection. Some of the few 20 or so words
preserved are herbal names captured into the earliest version of the Ars
The Getae/Goths/Dacians & possibly Thracians all being essentially
interelated of ancient Scandinavian origin and blending after Roman
supremacy into Bulgaria/Romania/Hungary & possibly Russia. This of course
links many lines including Stojko's. While the translation leaves lots to
be desired, the possibility of ties into the Russ is there, although the
Goth/Dacians appear to have blended into the whole area of
Romania/Bulgaria/Armenia and dissappeared. Regretably, modern nationalistic
arguments along with the spread of Christianity in the 800's have pretty
much made it all but impossible to trace the ancient history into modernity
in the region.
This of course raises the perhaps "preposterous" possibility that the VMS is
as Steve says, much older than generally thought (i.e., more than 1000 years
earlier) and hence the oldest surviving parchment MS. Generally, I think
the oldest parchment is said to be the Codex Vaticanus. However, there are
multiple historical references to a library of over 200,000 volumes at
Pergamum (from whence the word for parchment derives) in the 300 B.C. period
which Mark Antony gave to Cleopatra after a burning of the library at
Going down this road there are clear cultural influences from both the
Greeks and the Romans, and Dacians at one time were the dominant culture
over the Greeks and Romans, although apparently never tightly unified. The
avenue being pursued here goes back to the letters of the VMS and recasts
them as alternates and possible precursors to Greek letters. The EVA "y"
for instance, for our purposes is an "S" sound similar to the ancient Greek
letter with that sound.
Was hoping to present this as a proven fait accompli, but so many recent
references recently have been hitting remarkably close to home, including
such things as references to links at Dr. Savescu's site related to the
Codex Rhod.., nordic links, etc.... Dr. Savescu, apparently for
nationalistic reasons has been on the forefront of pointing to Dacian
antiquity to the glory of Romania, although he apparently has not seen a
connection to the VMS as of Dacian origin.
There are many individual items that suggest a connection to me. Just one
more for the time being, is an ancient calendar found in what is now
Bulgaria but dating to antiquity that is perhaps more accurate than any
other calendar system including the ancient Mayan. It had both lunar and
solar aspects. One of the zodiac figures for this system is the snow
leopard, which I believe is one of the odd zodiac animals in the VMS.
Ridiculous, I know, but the trail we are pursuing now nonetheless. If
anyone follows up on this chain, I would caution taking translations at face
value, as there are numerous references to the Dacian office of Zamalxis
which was the chief philosopher and counselor to the king (second highest
office) as a god. In fact, after careful reading, I don't think the Dacians
worshiped a god Zamalxis, but rather held the office in great esteem.
Additionally, the history of the Getae by Jordanes when compared against
other ancient histories, suggests that several mythological gods were in
fact, based upon real individuals..?
So Nick, the connection you bring up linking the Phaistos disk and Nordic
ties, can possibly be reconciled in the Goths/Dacians. Specifically, that
the VMS is a manuscript capturing some of the wisdom and bellagines (bylaws)
which Jordanes related that the Dacian Zamalxis taught his people.
Following the threads in Jordanes, Herodotus, Strabo, etc. of course leads
to other wild fun too, such as locating the pillars of Hercules not at the
strait of Gibraltar but on the east coast of the Mediterranean and putting
Atlantis at Crete ;) and there being several catastrophic floods, one
chasing the Getae off the plains and into the mountains, etc.
On this end, the current working assumption is to try and disprove that the
VMS may not only be the most fascinating manuscript in world, but now the
oldest extant one, and the only known Dacian one. There are some
interesting lead tablets cast from gold ones in the 1800's that subsequently
dissappeared that are possibly Dacian. They are generally regarded as
hoaxes, although the usual hoax motivations are apparently absent and some
of the layout depicted have only been excavated in modern times... They are
in a different medium and are not miniscule but rather use Greek capitals.
Obviously this line throws references like the 14th century humanist hand
out the window and raises confusion with reference to the Capelli gallows
connection, but if anyone wants to humor me, I would be very interested in
getting feedback on anything in the manuscript that would preclude it from
dating to the 300's A.D. as opposed to the 1400's. Such an origin would
explain why it doesn't have the overt Christian aspects associated with most
surviving old manuscripts, nor the real flavor of the fantasy occult
manuscripts.... As far as I can tell, no authoritative examination of the
media has been undertaken, although I have read one account that describes
the physical media as having most interesting feel and smell... Wish
someone would undertake such a study.
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