RE: VMs: Link between Phaistos Disk & VMs...!?

["John Grove" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

	Just to clarify a few false statements made by Mr. Stojko,

	I never have stated I know the language and exact meaning written on each
page - Nobody does, however some like Mr. Stojko imply that they do.
How he could even suggest that it was I who said I had a solution is beyond
me.  I am all for someone proving something concrete - yet what I have
stated about his 'solution' is simply that he's done a lot of work, but
unfortunately proved nothing. All the reasons why his solution doesn't work
have been clearly stated many, many times and not a single one of them ever
said that it's because I know the real answer.

	John Grove does not have a solution to be 'violated', Sorry again Mr.
Stojko - you seem to keep misunderstanding my words no matter how clearly I
write them.

	John.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of john stojko
Sent: Sunday, August 07, 2005 10:23 PM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: VMs: Link between Phaistos Disk & VMs...!?


DACIAN Language



After 10 days of rest and recuperation I returned home and checked my
E-mail. I learned that VMS. Org. made big progress. Wayne Durden suggested
different approach to solve VMS reading.  But as usual, John Grove began his
usual prove of his correct solution which Wayne violated.

John, you 6 or 7 years ago wrote the same thing and pointed my erroneous
solution. You also stated that you know the language and exact meaning
written on each page. The only left for you is defining the VMS alphabet.

I see big progress made by you. Instead “I “now you write “WE”. This is big
progress.



Let me “sully” VMS list with my short opinion.

I believe that Wayne has solid approach to the VMS solution by suggesting
that it could be lost Dacian writing.

Why? Examination of VMS shows that the copy of VMS in Beinecke possession is
written not by one but by more than one person. This suggests that at that
time when this copy was made the language and alphabet was used by general
public. However this leads to more questions. Namely, is the copy in Yale is
original or a copy of many copies from the original which is not in Yale
possession.

You also suggested that Yale should make chemical analysis ‘to determine
time frame’. This test will show when this particular VMS copy was made. But
it will not show when the original was written.

John, how would you relate to your time frame?

I wrote few times to consider the condition of that region in your time
frame. Now there are few list members from that region and I like them to
confirm my rusty knowledge. In the beginning of war there were 3 millions
and at the end only 1 left.

Now you may see the need for the copy with mysterious pictures.



To investigate Dacian culture and writing one has to include Slavic and
Scythians. The Slavic nations exist to the present time. But the Scythians
no where to be found. So let us start with the history of Herodotus.

History on Scythians Herodotus named “Melpomene” and probably took from
Scythian or Slavic languages. Melpomenem consist from two words.



Mel (now mylo) means = nicely, amiably, prettily

Pomen or pomeny means = prayer for the dead, remembering the past.



His title suggests that 500 BC the Scythians did not existed at that time.

>From the Bible the Greek translated the word for Scythian as ‘Scotai’.

The meaning of the word Scotai in Ukrainian is:

Skot = domesticated animal of bovine family, cows.

Scotai = one who owns or employed on cow ranch, cow boy.

The plural for Skotai is Skothiany (cow boys)

>From Skothiany we are now understand Scythians.

In Latina alphabet there is no ‘K’ letter and instead used ‘C’ letter.

Hence to reproduce proper phonetic value it should be written Scothiany but
for some reason the word Skotiany is written Scythians.



Now I am returning to the Herodotus history on Scythians.

Here again one can see deliberate misinformation’s. Let take second
paragraph from Melpomen, how the Skotiany (cowboys) milked and processed
milk.

Not much I can say about milking machine and where they attached via bone
pipe. You have to make your own judgment about the truce.

The same is true about separation of milk into lower and upper parts.

For help in your judgment consult literature how to separate liquids of
different weights. After that make your own judgment.

However I will add this. The Scothians knew how to separate liquids of
different weights. It seems that their method is used to the present time
but by modern technology. Or as the Herodotus call, barbarian way. The
civilized nation like Greek does not use this method with goat’s milk.



Here is few links if you wish to continue this line of study.



http://www.geocities.com/indoeurop/tree/balk/dacian.html



>From bible,

6. Magog: His immediate descendants were known as the Magogites, being later
known to the Greeks as the Scythians, according to the testimony of
Josephus. However, given the subsequent history of the peoples of Ashchenaz
(see 3), who are far more certainly identified as the later Scythians (Gk.
Skythai, and Assyr. Askuza), it is more likely that the early Magogites were
assimilated into the peoples of Ashchenaz, thus making up merely a part of
the Scythian hordes. The early Irish Celts traced their own lineage from
Japheth through the line of Magog (see chapter 9 and Map 1). (Refs: 1DB
3:226. NBD 'Gog and Magog' 480-1 JA 1.vi.1. P 1:26)



1. Ashkenaz = Sythians; occurs in Jer. 51:27 in connection with the kingdoms
of Ararat and Minni, suggesting a location around Armenia.



The nation of Japhets

http://www.ldolphin.org/cooper/appen3.html



I am sorry for the length of this e-mail.

I intended to write few paragraph but unintentionally I made

long and probably boring this e-mail. Sorry.



John Stojko



----- Original Message -----
From: "John Grove" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, August 01, 2005 9:05 AM
Subject: RE: VMs: Link between Phaistos Disk & VMs...!?


>
> Wayne,
>
> I do wish you luck in your endeavours and hope you manage to prove your
> theory. Although most of us aren't convinced by a 1000 year leap back in
> time as yet and are somewhat close-minded by our current belief that we're
> looking at something from the 12th to 16th century. We see things as they
> appear to relate to that time frame, while you don't. That's fine, all I
was
> asking for was a little more concrete evidence. I can't say that the
> clothing is set to a single time period - but I can say that I haven't
seen
> any evidence that the dove-tail like battlements existed pre 13th century.
I
> may well be wrong if such things did exist in earlier times - I just
haven't
> seen any. The other side of this argument is the quality of the
drawings...
> they are poor representations of a castle or walls, but nonetheless have
at
> least this one distinctive feature.  By all means, please continue to
sully
> the list with historical links deep into the past - just don't expect that
> we're going to say "Wow, you're right" or "You might be onto something..."
> until you've given us something a little more convincing.   From my part,
I
> admit that we can't give much more convincing evidence either. It would be
> nice if somebody took the time and 'cost' to do some chemical analysis to
> determine a time frame, but I seriously doubt anyone will convince
Beinecke
> to do so.
>
> John.
>
>
> Wayne>>Yes,  I suspected it would come back to this kind of head butting
> (your
> asking me to disprove a negative, etc.) so I will refrain from further
> sullying the list with items related to our getic chase then.
>
> ..  There are at least a few of us who suspend judgement as to whether the
> 86v artistry is truly depicting "ghibelline" battlements and who agree in
> any case that they can be shown earlier in Sicily than the political
dispute
> from whence they take their current name that some folks here are so hung
up
> on.   We will correspond amongst ourselves about the issues. If anyone
else
> on the main list lays hands on the Getic alphabet referenced by Carolo
> Lundio or the Goth history of Johannes Magnus which purportedly has the
> alphabet which predates Wulfia in the near future, please email me
directly
> as some of us will remain most interested, and contrary to assertions
these
> items could easily disprove our negative, and allow us to turn from
seeking
> out Getic writing and the lost book of the bogomils ;) to cracking
ciphers.
> However, it is clearly a waste of time to discuss it further on the main
> list, time that could be spent following up lines of inquiry rather than
> discussing the crackpot theory that the manuscript might be older than
15th
> to 13th century on this list.  I do not agree that the fact that there
might
> be 3 orders of magnitude fewer earlier examples necessarily means that
there
> aren't any...
>
> Nonetheless, I hope that at least a few have gained entertainment value
from
> the portions of much older histories recently posted or a broadening of
> their perspective of European history therefrom.  I guess we all chose to
> ignore that which doesn't fit our leanings until we are hit squarely
between
> the eyes with it whether it be ghibelline battlements, floppy hats,
hunting
> outfits or zipf's law statistics and word counts.  I suspect I need a good
> two by four blow to clear my addled skull....
>
> With kind regards in absentia,
>
> Wayne
>
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