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Re: D!




OK OK OK. Lemme read your answers. Let's go.



DarkMaP was talking about evaluating posibilities to 'really' consider some rare kind of XORing in the VMs..
Steve Ekwall wrote: (snip)
In ANY language: *YES*, now just take ALL (finite known dictionaries as per ADAM) and either get HITS or we are looking at an artificial language.. (you / we - Throw out 1/2 the problem(s), I would think !!)
rem: computers run 24/7 etc.. (_ALL dictionaries_ included)
-=se=-
steve (just a late night thought) ekwall

p.s. XORing, good thought Sir, TOUCHE~ (duh steve - (ha.haa)) 

OK. You get the way Steve, take another coffee cup...
Continue readiing.





DarkMaP wrote:
Did somebody in the past considerred that the entire VMS be crypted with simple character set replacing??
John Grove wrote:
Yes, that is where most of us started and unfortunately the statistics are just too bizarre for any natural language matched with simple substitution.

Ok. Let's talk about 'complex' charset substitution. Posibilities are non-finite... Just evaluate the psycho-life-style for a sick mind (why not?) alchemist in the 17th. Century Fox :-). What could say Sigmund (Freud) about our boy?? The capability to develop a cipher method vary with 'how-brighty-its-mind-is', then if we've got a guy with huge knowledge about a lot of sciences, life and a variety of languages (let's say 7?), with the prosecution of illiterate people/government that censure all that rarely hide info simply because they don't understand it... we'll get a paranoid-prodigy-genious-scientific trying to avoid the world get his power. Knowledge power... "Under pressure" sings Freddie Mercury... while we have the headache. If I should improve a secret method in that age with the resources I get, the manuscript would be written in a fuckingly crazy mega-mix of the languages I spoke + its own dialects + plus mispelling (intentionally) + some rare "dialect" I only speak (by improving). In this way you should know several langs and their posible 'slang' terms. And you can add now some kind of "charset substitution". VOILA! You get in the hell. Now, you haven't "natural language", but we must talk about "mixed & non-natural languages". Tell me if I'm wrong! ok?
Anyway...



-Adam & Steve Ekwall wrote: (snip)

Adam writes: (snip)
The easy way to decide if a text is in a known language is match text chunks against a word-list of that language. Random text would only give a few hits, but text in that language would generate 90% hits (we'll assume some unincluded words). 
------------------------
Steve Ekwall replied: (snip)
YES ! I AGREE. BUT, (ha.haa <--- There's THAT "but") What IF it is an "artificial language?" Where do you send your "check - chunks" for comparison? Actually, I thought of that one too - since I know but 1 language (that, even not too well)... and didn't know how many dictionaries to down load, "infinite computer banks etc..."
-=se=-
Best to you & your's
steve (we ARE _closing_ in on it though) ekwall

That's the point I wanted to arrive... You also like a Brute Force attack? Do you know how long the size of the libraries (for up to 15 languages) would be? Cause I know, calculate a few 300 words in each language... differents file that gives us about 4000-5000 words. After, you need a software capable to load each language and proccess long quantities of Manuscript (translated to some ASCII/ANSI equivalent, easily readable for the program)... oops, we are forgetting that the program must consider the XORing in texts and test different levels of charset substitution, registering every minimal coincidence... How many time we could spent compilating languages and developing the "algorythm tester"? And what if at last... we don't obtain any fucking results. Or still cool thing: we could find chains in "different natural languages"... Hey, friends... are somebody up for this job??? :-) I'm the first candidate, I can build the soft (if some of you can/want help), where are you (reader), the linguistic expert in any particular lang? I'm talking 2u. I'm talking about... if one alchimist, 4-5 centuries ago, developed and undecyphrable method... why... WHY we (a lot of cool minds) cannot do the effort?? (Or you already did it in the past?)
IF ANYONE BELIEVE IT WOULD WORK JUST WRITE.

IF it is an "artificial language"... you take your "check - chunks" and.... you'll say "We tested it, and don't worked.. ¿Anyone have another cool idea?"




DarkMaP stupidly asked:
I just ask myself how an arabic alchemy coded text gets into Europe. Not how. Best WHY?
Dennis wrote:
Good grief! How did you think alchemy got going again in the West?? Note that al-chemy is an Arabic word. As you might recall, a lot of forgotten Greek science made its way to the West during the Middle Ages by way of Arabic.

I'm recurring in stupid questions (maybe? maybe not?) Where were the entry point for the Arabic sciences? Can we add the 'oriental' influence in the Iberian peninsula for about 800 long years? Hey, how far lived the "French people" then?




Final conclusion: we got the ideas, not the methods. We have nothing.

How do you decode a text if you: 1) don't know the plain original language/s, 2) don't know the theme you are looking at, 3) the cipher algorithm is so complex that you don't find a frequency match, 4) you don't know who is the creator, 5) you'll NEVER know if the original is a meta-language, or simply is a hoax built with profit purposes.... you never know. WE will know, sometime.

:-)
I hope we get it cracked before an extraterrestrial live being comes and said, "don't you guess fool?" and easily crack it by taking notes in a paper.... E.T.!!!! come back!!!




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