Re: FW: Chen Dongtian

[Jorge Stolfi <stolfi@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

[I can't tell whether this message was sent to the list or not.
Sorry for any duplication... --js]

    > [Claus Anders:] You can even download a complete (i.e. japanese
    > - complete) Kanji dic from monash.edu.au with more info about
    > kanjis you even need to know (even with chinese pronounciation).
    
Thanks, I had already got that. And indeed it is more than I wanted to
know -- I wish I didn't have so many kanji pronounciations to choose
from... 8-)
    
    > The 1. sign looks really convicing to "winter" (cursive), but
    > the second more to "Big" (if only the horizontal stroke would be
    > there!), so you got winter as combined kanji (Hanzi).
    
Does the combination winter-big make sense? ("Big winter" would be
written in the opposite order, whouldn't it?)

    > [Gabriel:] This seems a closer match to me (althought still upside down).
    > http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=5140
    
The dictionary says it sounds "wu4" and means "high and level" (adj.)
or "stool" (n.). But, again, what would "dong1 wu4" mean?

As Claus noted, the legs of "wu4" should not meet at the top;
but that would be within the assumed error range.

However, the horizontal stroke of "wu4" should be thinner than the legs,
but in the VMS the scribe intentionally made it extra thick.
So I would rather think that the original was indeed "tien1",
with the two strokes rather close together (or fused, as 
they would be in cursive script); and the scribe misinterpreted
them as "one double-width stroke".

    > [Claus:] And look at the "winter" sign: the curved strokes are
    > more apart. But where are the missing strokes?

You should compare the VMS symbols to cursive or semi-cursive Chinese,
not to the "hand-printed" forms which are shown in dictionaries. As
far as I know, in cursive forms of "dong1" the two "quote marks" at
the bottom do become a squiggle, and its "head" does shrinks to a
short and fat stroke.

    > [Philip Neal:] If these are Chinese characters, I would guess
    > them both to be attempts to write da4, 'great'. However, the
    > Greek letter pi also fits the bill and so does the picnic table
    > character of the VMS script.

It is not very clear in the image, but I am assuming that the
"S"-shaped quiggle under the top character is in red ink, too; and is
therefore part of that character. Not to mention that the two
characters have fairly different head-arm proportions (as in the
presumed Chinese originals).


    > [stolfi:] Collection of Secret Prescriptions by Chen
    > DONGTIAN

    > [Philip Neal:] Nice, but irrelevant unless Chen Dongtian wrote his name with the
    > characters 'winter' and 'day'. Did he?
    
I have no idea. That page was the only reference to that book and its
author that I could find on the net.  

    > I'm intrigued but still not convinced.

Neither am I. 

Besides, even though that paragraph mentions herbs, astronomy,
meteorology, astrology, star transit tables, and recipes, it does NOT
mention any Album of Ten Thousand Gorgeous Girls Having Lotsa Fun In
Weird Organic Bathtubs. So this is probably not `it', either. Sigh.
;-)

All the best,

--stolfi