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VMs: RE: Folio 39r

Nice work indeed...

I particularly like the red lettering on line 10 as a perfect
example of glyphs formed by strokes. The stroke orders I've
combined in the past are indeed the same that you are using (for
the most part) to build your glyphs... Which is what I tried
to explain (rather poorly) in the past... Each letter (I called it)
was formed by a collection of strokes c+c+c+b for example. And I
explained that this would help us make some of the  wierdo characters
as well -- by having two finishing strokes in place of the standard
'normal' one ending. The red item on line 10 is a perfect display of
this charachteristic...

You have what is a 'c' character, followed by the 'h' extension, the
's' ligature and the 'y' ligature. All combined to form one character.

John Grove.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-voynich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-voynich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of GC
Sent: Wednesday, September 25, 2002 3:46 AM
To: Voynich Ms. mailing list
Subject: VMs: Re: Folio 39r

Dana Wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-voynich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-voynich@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of DANA SCOTT
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2002 11:48 PM
To: Voynich Ms. mailing list
Subject: VMs: Re: Folio 39r

Hello GC,

   Did you intend to reference both f39r and f39v here? I think
that it would help to specify the text you are referring for a
friendly "critical analysis". Thank you.

Dana Scott

Hi Dana,

I apparently get my think from Foibles R-VS, as I apparently
bought a keyboard that misspells regularly.  Folio 39r is the
page, and I've posted a copy of the transcription at
http://voynich.info/vgbt/vgbt-39r.jpg with some pointers as to
which glyphs I consider 'rare', a definition established by raw
count.  Note that three of the four rare 'extended' gallows
combinations ( those with an extra C at the end) are represented
on this page, as well as 'extended' combinations of {c} and
{stroke}/EVA <i>.  These two extended glyphs occurring on the same
page is extremely rare, and the confirmation of the three variant
gallows glyphs on one page is also an anomaly.

This page has some other interesting features, but I'm certain
there is enough here to raise a few questions.  I also point out
folio 24v as a 'transition' page, something I think I mentioned
earlier.  As glyphs go, the rare variants exhibited on 24v move
into sharper focus after that page, as is the case with these rare
forms on 39r.  An interesting phenomenon.

I do not wish to offer speculation at this point on what these
mean, rather point them out as strong and solid glyph forms, and
one of my primary points in this transcription was to offer a
basis for 'friendly critical analysis'.  I'm picking out repeated
variants and discovering that they tend to appear in in
predictable sets of four variants for each glyph form.  Couple
that with specific calligraphic rules and 99% of what I see
conforms to a a very strict set of rules that guide their
construction.  Extend that to the 'words', (the most examined
unit), and we see that the entire manuscript is built from the
ground up in conformation to strict rules.  Why this is so is the

Each one of my pages has undergone two sets of readings, and a
third reading will take place before I release a transcription
that continues up to the zodiac pages.  Three reads to me is a
golden number, since I tend not to change anything after that
number.  I do not intend the gold transcription to mean that it is
'written in gold' and is unchangeable, rather that it is the best
I am capable of given my images and circumstances.

This is much more than a simple transcription effort in my mind.
I maintain a page that covers each glyph and identifies all
sources to my knowledge where this glyph occurs in other works,
and as I said before, they are all one form of 'shorthand' or
another, at least in my sourcing database.  Hopefully the
discussion will raise questions that provide additional answers.
My limited resources can only draw outlines, and I am sincere in
my belief that together we can provide those outlines with a
degree of form and substance.

The way I've set this up is that I can provide on demand (up to
the point I've transcribed) not only the glyph representation
itself, but an image for each glyph, by folio, line and word.
This database will be available in dBase and Excel formats, and
for Microsoft Database users as well.  For MS I might choose an
older format than I currently use, as newer systems are backward

This project is a necessity to our study.  I chose 'glyph-based'
(vgbt=Voynich Glyph Based Transcription) because:

1.  It suits the natural western eye identification and evokes a
certain awareness in the western mind.
2.  Extensive analysis of the glyphs does not indicate a
predominance of compound 'language' or 'shorthand'
    structures that would suggest anything other than glyph-based
3.  Even obvious compound glyphs form sets too small to be
language related.
4.  The extremely limited number of 'stroke sets' tends to
preclude any stroke based reading.
     Glyphs are written as units, and are very redundant in
occurrence better than 99% of the time.
5.  Glyph variants group in sets of four, far too contrived for
'natural language'.

I don't expect my transcription to be the final analysis, I'm not
nearly that arrogant... rather I desire that it become the
beginning of a new and meaningful study, and an extensive database
that combines both theory and image is my opening effort.  Many
trifles LOOK like a pizza, but the best recipes have been weighed
and measured hundreds of times before they're offered to the
public.  No sauce is complete without that pinch of anise, and no
pepperoni is 'fresh' unless you've hung it in your own sock on the
front porch.  This ain't no store-bought pizza, it has to be built
from scratch, and even then, from fresh ingredients.