RE: VMs: Astronomical Notes, Comments, and Replies

["Larry Roux" <lroux@xxxxxxx>]

Actually, the particular message you note below was, in fact, old and
has become moot as a different sequence of numbers is now the leading
contender.  I believe Roberts latest list is something like

f o r y e l k s 8 ch
0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

0-7 appear in the order above in f49v, among other pages.




******************************
Larry Roux
Syracuse University
lroux@xxxxxxx
*******************************
>>> glenclaston@xxxxxxxxx 02/07/03 22:27 PM >>>
Robert wrote:
> I started from what I thought was an obvious starting point; the
> <o> character which f49v translates as "1", then clockwise. Did
> you notice the odd line starting from the tip of the
> spike to the
> right of the o? To me, that said 'start here' as well.

No, I didn't notice this line, and I still don't notice it.  I
have three separate versions of this image, and each have their
own "flaws" in photo-production.  I see no such marking in the
color image provided by Beinecke, if it is a mark you refer to.
If it is the line of ringed text directly circling the center,
there should be nothing more noticeable than the *very large*
break in the ring of text, a very common way of indicating
beginning and ending points in circular text.

> You're right that text usually begins at the 10 or 11 o'clock
> position, but I wasn't concerned with the outside ring of text.

I have pointed this out before, but I'll reiterate that the fact
this author went to the trouble to point out "starting points" on
his diagrams is something not done unless they were absolutely
necessary.  Consider:

If this were an unknown alphabet of a lost language, those who
could read it will still have been able to determine the right
starting point without any special markings.  Take a look at the
wording written on anything "round" around your house or business,
and you'll see that known language does not need a starting point
for understanding.  This is also true of the earliest emblematic
writings, very popular in the 15th and 16th century. This author
doesn't miss a stroke in identifying the beginning of something.
There has to be a reason above normal language.

This type of marking also rules out anagrammatic and simple
substitution-type writing, as these would not be in need of
starting points, either.  Only something as intricate as an
advanced homophonic or polyalphabetic requires such markings.
When there is a system involved is it necessary to signify the
beginning of that system.  Normal language or simple substitution
has no need of this, and neither does what has been suggested in
this thread, a system of basic numerical homophonic substitution.

It goes deeper than that, of course.  There are only a certain
number of glyphs that begin pages, paragraphs and labels, and the
rest of the text appears to follow a very "rigid" set of rules, by
most accounts, as well.  If you believe the author had nothing
intellectual to impart, this is not a problem.  However, if you
are of the belief that the author imparted highly personal
intellectual information, this would require that he use the
extent of his linguistic ability, and if this is so, other
considerations are in order.

If intellectual matter is being imparted on such a rigid surface,
the underlying system must be extremely flexible, counter to our
modern view of "cipher" as a means of creating a flexible surface
from "rigid" language.  The VMS is far more rigid than language,
so must have a very flexible underpinning.

Just a thought.

GC

______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list

______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list