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VMs: Hebrew Kabbalistic MSS in the Vatican
From: "Donald Goodell" <donald.goodell@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <dscott520@xxxxxxx>
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 1:02 PM
Subject: Hebrew Kabbalistic MSS in the Vatican
Hi Dana:
I seem to remember the so-called Vatican Neofiti Collection, the large
Rossi/Rossini Collection and the prestigious Urbanati Ebraici collection
all currently in the Vatican Library which houses Hebrew, Aramaic and
Kaballstic mediaeval MSS, (in fact over 800 MSS of Hebraica are currently
housed in
the Vatican Library.)
But there are a lot of Kabbalistic collections throughout Italy and Spain,
and also in various places throughout Europe including Oxford's Bodeleian
Library and of course the Cambridge collections from the Cairo Geniza (the
Synagogue of Ben Ezra) which Solomon Schecter brought back with him in
1897...
Why do you ask about the Vatican Library in particular as a "first
thought"?
Take care,
DG
donald.goodell@xxxxxxxxx
----- Original Message -----
> > From: "DANA SCOTT" <dscott520@xxxxxxx>
> > To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:46 AM
> > Subject: VMs: Re: Hebrew Kabbalistic Cryptography
> >
> >
> > > Hello Donald,
> > >
> > > My first thought here would be to ask whether or not there are any
> > > "Aramaic/Hebrew Caballistic" manuscripts in the Vatican Library?
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Dana Scott
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Donald Goodell" <donald.goodell@xxxxxxxxx>
> > > To: <lroux@xxxxxxx>; <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 10:03 AM
> > > Subject: VMs: Hebrew Kabbalistic Cryptography
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Hi Larry:
> > > >
> > > > You wrote in Section II of your attachment (Ancient Character
> > Replacement)
> > > >
> > > > QUOTE "There have been examples of languages over time where vowels
> were
> > > not
> > > > incorporated into the written language. The Dead Sea scrolls, for
> > > instance,
> > > > are written in a vowel-less version of Hebrew. " UNQUOTE
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually, Larry, all Hebrew and Aramaic MSS and inscriptions from
> > > Antiquity
> > > > both in and outside the Dead Sea corpus (like most other ancient
> Middle
> > > > Eastern languages such as Akkadian cuneiform etc.) were essentially
> > > > vowel-less systems, and written vowels were not codified prior to
> about
> > > > 960AD were (the time of the Massoretes when a vowel system for
Hebrew
> > was
> > > > devised for purposes of "uniform" cantillation among the Ashkenazi
> > > clerics)
> > > > .
> > > >
> > > > But some consonants performed the function of "vowels"in Hebrew
prior
> > to
> > > > the advent of the Massoretes (e.g. "vav" was often used for letter
> "long
> > > o"
> > > > and "long u" and "yud" was often used for the letter "i" (as in the
> word
> > > > "Israel") or in forming plurals (e.g. "gOyIm" where the letter Vav
is
> > > used
> > > > for the O and Yud for the letter I)etc.
> > > >
> > > > So one would have to say that in general Hebrew is really only
> > "partially"
> > > > de-vowelled, i.e. before 960AD and the Dead Sea Scrolls (writen
> between
> > > BC
> > > > 290 to AD68) are just one of many examples of this scribal practice
in
> > the
> > > > ancient world (see Egyptian Heiroglyphics for example which are
> likewise
> > > > de-vowelled).
> > > >
> > > > Also, I must also insert here that the Dead Sea Scroll Corpus is
> written
> > > in
> > > > several languages not just Hebrew, including: a. Paleo-Hebrew (i.e.
> > copies
> > > > of the Torah etc. written out with Phoenician letters), b. a form of
> > early
> > > > proto-Mishnaic "Jerusalemite" Hebrew (e.g. fragments of the Wisdom
of
> > Ben
> > > > Sirach, or fragments of I Henoch, etc..), c. Aramaic (e.g. the
Genesis
> > > > Apocryphon) and even d. in Greek (fragments of copies of the
Psalms
> > and
> > > > the Torah have been found in Greek as well as Greek "code" words
found
> > in
> > > > the Copper Scroll outlining the various locations of the contents of
> the
> > > > Jerusalem Temple Treasury).
> > > >
> > > > More to the point with the VMS thread here, and to me a very
> interesting
> > > > fact which pertains to our immediate discussion is that, curiously,
> some
> > > > Dead Sea Scrolls are written in Cypher-Code, i.e. in a simple
> "cryptic"
> > > > alphabetic replacement code, e.g. the fragments of a scroll known as
> the
> > > > "Admonitions to the Sons of the Dawn" found in Cave 4 at Qumran
(4Q298
> > > > Cryptic) where each Aramaic letter is replaced by a totally
different
> > > > replacement letter-symbol.
> > > >
> > > > These symbols bear a curious resemblance at times to the Voynich
> sigils,
> > > > e.g. the system used in 4Q298 for the Aramaic letter "vav" closely
> > > resembles
> > > > the VMS sigil for EVA [f]; also the Cryptic 4Q298 code for the
Aramaic
> > > > letter "Quph" is the same as the Voynich sigil for EVA [d] (i.e.
> > > resembling
> > > > the modern Arabic numeral 8); the Cryptic 4Q298 coded letter for
> Aramaic
> > > > "tav" resembles the VMS sigil for EVA [p]: the Crytpic 4Q298 coded
> > letter
> > > > for Aramaic " 'ayin " is similar to the VMS sigil for EVA [c]; 4Q298
> > > Cryptic
> > > > Aramaic letter "Kaph" is the same symbol as the VMS sigil for EVA
[o]:
> > > 4Q298
> > > > Cryptic sign for Aramaic "mem" is similar to the VMS sigil for EVA
[m}
> > and
> > > > finally, the EVA [q] which resembles a tall numeral "4" is similar
to
> > the
> > > > 4Q298 Cryptic coded letter for Aramaic "tet".
> > > >
> > > > This may suggest (but only "may" suggest) that the originator of the
> VMS
> > > > sigil-cypherbet might have had some contact with Aramaic/Hebrew
> > > Caballistic
> > > > coded cyphers used in antiquity and developed/morphed over time
> through
> > > the
> > > > Middle Ages (even the Dead Sea Scroll sect re-emerged as the
Karaites
> > > before
> > > > the year 1000).
> > > >
> > > > Discussion anyone?
> > > >
> > > > DG
> > > >
> > > > donald.goodell@xxxxxxxxx
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Larry Roux" <lroux@xxxxxxx>
> > > > To: <vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:29 PM
> > > > Subject: VMs: decryption document
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I put together a document on some encryption methods and how they
> > > > > pertain to the Voynich. It can be found at
> > > > >
> > > > > http://web.syr.edu/~laroux/voyencrypdoc.html
> > > > >
> > > > > While I have seen several sites that attack Voynich from a
> particular
> > > > > decryption method, I have not seen a more general one that shows
> > > > > different methods and how they relate to the Voy Manuscript.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am NOT an expert in cryptology, so be kind. I am sure I am not
> > using
> > > > > the official terminology, etc. And this is a work in progress.
> Note
> > > > > that I am doing this more for my own reference and a way to focus
my
> > > > > ideas than to be the "go-to" reference (or I would be more careful
> to
> > > > > learn the correct terminology, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any comments are welcome. If people really HATE it then I can
> delete
> > it
> > > > > <grin>.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'll be adding more info (links to the various pages, other
schemes,
> > > > > etc) if the page survives initial review....
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > ******************************
> > > > > Larry Roux
> > > > > Syracuse University
> > > > > lroux@xxxxxxx
> > > > > *******************************
> > > > >
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