RE: VMs: Babelfish translation [plus question for Dana]

["John Grove" <John@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

	Round, round, we go...

	I remember when I first joined the list, I couldn't quite get why
Jacques lambasted all the various attempts I made at trying to deal with
the VMS as a tonal-substitution made to look like readable text. A lot of
what Jeff is presenting is quite reminiscent of the 'wow - now this looks
like something!' that I had way back when.

	Okay, so he's trying to make the EVA transform into a poly-alphabetic
cipher -- of course, we'd all be quite surprised if it worked (but it won't
and
he'll eventually see that). In the meantime it is worth it to point out
the minor flaws (like the fact that ch is quite odd - not to mention normal
in
its oddity). Consider once again those odd-combos that look like ch - but
end
in an 'o' or 'y' and aren't the same as cho and chy. Any kind of
cipher-system
is going to choke quite often on the VMS. If somebody pulls off a good set
of
rules for what happens when 'this' occurs - great; but, lets keep the set of
rules
for changing the algorithm to within reason.

	I still favour the concept of large-glyphs built out of an opening c and
finishing
with one of five ligatures - but the VMS still won't produce any reasonable
text for
me either.

	Keep plugging away Jeff, Nick, et al... You might just shake something
loose.

	John.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Rene Zandbergen
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2003 2:39 PM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: VMs: Babelfish translation [plus question for Dana]



--- Larry Roux <LRoux@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> I disagree.  ch is probably 2 glyphs.  They are
> written as 2 distinct characters and there are
> examples of ah co and others.

I know that you're not alone to hold that opinion,
but you're certainly part of a minority.

It is a strange thing, this character, because
a variety with a plume exists as well, and it
can be intruded by the gallows characters.
The main reason why Eva uses two characters
to represent it, is to be able to write
ckh, cth, cph and cfh for these intruding gallows,
and to allow a clean representation of the many
so-called weirdoes (ligatured variants of it).

I understand your two arguments above, but I am
not sure whether they support the idea that
ch is really two characters. For example, the
capital Y is also written in two parts, and
the similar character X exists, yet Y is a single
character.

Mind you, I have no answers, only lots of
questions myself.

Cheers, Rene

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