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*To*: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx*Subject*: Re: VMs: Italian enciphered in Voynichese (yes you read it right)*From*: Vladimir Sazonov <vladimir@xxxxxxxx>*Date*: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 23:43:37 +0100*References*: <000a01c3d14d$fb35cd40$0100a8c0@jeff> <3FF69C45.7050704@snafu.de> <000a01c3d20d$d9a0aea0$0100a8c0@jeff>*Reply-to*: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx*Sender*: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx*User-agent*: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0

Yes, it seems wonderful.

Now I have several questions about possibility of so complex cipher in 16-17 century.

The final encoding/decoding table should be large and ambiguous in both directions. The criterium of correct selection of the ambiguity is the overlap of neighbouring triplets.

For example: ras-> ase->seg->egu

1. Is it necessary to keep all possible triplets in the table? Or it is enough to drop some letters as here in your example "vostra s(e)guendo" with an absend triplet in a code table?

2. Theoretically we have about 10000 triplets (maybe 1000 in use). With ambiguity the table should have several thousands entries. Is it possible to make encoding/decoding

comfortable without computer for the technology of 17 century?

For example the technology of hierogliphical data entry for keyboards in China or Japan (with 2000 characters) is very complex and needs a good education.

3. Is such ciphering enough flexible for each language? I mean, with some forcing and volatile assumptions (like Levitov's Katars or Stojko's Old Ukrainian) we can find a meaning in any text.

What can be a clear evidence that it is (for example) italian language? Can you try decode a large passage?

Regards

Vladimir

Jeff wrote:

Unless I have made errors in the table construction this is what the start of the first line should be.'Poi che la Eccellenzia Vostra seguendo'. Unless the language was known in advance the word splitting would be a tricky part of the decipherment.I may have made a mistake in the table as you were correct up to the start of vostra. If I have then I apologise.And to answer your question, yes the word boundaries in the voynichese do not line up with word boundaries in the plain text. However, in the VMS I am finding that a lot of the time two words seem to be packed into one VMS word. Whether I am right about the decipherment language or not I am finding a tight pattern structure that persists throughout the VMS text. I will be looking into the patterns that Robert Teague has sent me to see if this helps explain the findings. I feel that the answer is very close now and if I can map these patterns into a table structure consistently the answer might just pop up.JeffBTW For anyone that might be confused over the data below the plain text triplets overlap and once the first plaintext triplet has been selected its last two letter should overlap the first twqo letters of the next. So in the words poi che as above, the oi of poi will overlap with oic, oic with ich etc.----- Original Message -----From:Vladimir SazonovSent:03 January 2004 10:41Subject:Re: VMs: Italian enciphered in Voynichese (yes you read it right)--poichelaeccellenziavost (?)turas(e)guendoi(n)ciolo(r)me...

is it correct? Word bounds should be ignored?

Jeff wrote:

In the attached file there are three line of enciphered Italian in Voynichese. Yes its true! I would like someone to try to use the table to decipher it. I will post the answer once an attempt has been made. You should get some idea of what I am getting from the manuscript using this method. And no, the plaintext isn't deciphered from the VMS. Jeff

Cipher text polol.pchy.chadaiin.chkchoy.yky.sh.pcheek.shodod.qot.dy.tar daiim.y.ykeey.oykcho.qot.pcheol.okody.poiis.y.yky.g.yky.tsheo.ykal dak.sho.daky.chpady.darom.kor.ydy.ot.chok.oly.d.ykal.or.pchol Decryption table Left column has plaintext triplets followed by occurance count and ciphertext triplet. To decode lookup the cipher text triplet in the right columns and substitute the plaintext triplet. The method is self checking. ell - 5 aii edi - 4 dyo ion - 4 hok zio - 4 cho avo - 3 cho che - 3 pch del - 3 dai chy ede - 3 dyk dyt yai ent - 3 aky esa - 3 kal ess - 3 ors ory imi - 3 inc - 3 sho ita - 3 dak kal lle - 3 iin non - 3 eky rom nte - 3 kyp one - 3 oky ori - 3 oko que - 3 ame - 2 ani - 2 heo are - 2 pch art - 2 ase - 2 ysh asp - 2 ata - 2 kyc cit - 2 oda des - 2 yka dis - 2 mos eco - 2 eed - 2 ydy eel - 2 oai ela - 2 hyy hyc ema - 2 yky nsh end - 2 hee eno - 2 hek era - 2 dyp ere - 2 oky gli - 2 ard gni - 2 ich - 2 lpc ide - 2 idi - 2 ier - 2 ile - 2 oin orc isu - 2 izi - 2 lem - 2 gyk ins lor - 2 gqo med - 2 men - 2 nci - 2 hod ndo - 2 eek ogn - 2 oin - 2 ksh ope - 2 oso pen - 2 soc poi - 2 lol pro - 2 otp ras - 2 kys ree - 2 lyd reo - 2 cho ris - 2 kee rte - 2 sad - 2 ydy seg - 2 shp sen - 2 she spe - 2 sse - 2 rsh str - 2 yyk tat - 2 aky ted - 2 ydy vor - 2 hok zia - 2 hkc ada - 1 adi - 1 dyo aec - 1 cha aes - 1 chp afa - 1 agl - 1 agn - 1 yts ain - 1 ksh ala - 1 poi ale - 1 ygy alm - 1 alt - 1 lor ana - 1 iis ann - 1 ano - 1 aro apr - 1 aqu - 1 ara - 1 lky asi - 1 asu - 1 lda ate - 1 kyd ati - 1 atu - 1 syy azi - 1 bel - 1 rai cap - 1 cce - 1 ada cel - 1 dai ces - 1 kor cid - 1 cio - 1 odo cli - 1 cog - 1 con - 1 cri - 1 dal - 1 ypo dam - 1 deg - 1 yta dif - 1 yot dil - 1 yor dip - 1 dit - 1 div - 1 yol diz - 1 dog - 1 doi - 1 eks dov - 1 hor eag - 1 ebe - 1 nra ecc - 1 had eda - 1 dyp eer - 1 ndy ees - 1 har efi - 1 egl - 1 kar egn - 1 egu - 1 hpc eil - 1 eld - 1 aim ele - 1 elh - 1 elo - 1 ygq eni - 1 heo ens - 1 enz - 1 nch eog - 1 hol eop - 1 hos epr - 1 eri - 1 erl - 1 esp - 1 hpa est - 1 eth - 1 ett - 1 chl evi - 1 ezi - 1 ezz - 1 fat - 1 fav - 1 tch fic - 1 gen - 1 che gia - 1 gna - 1 tsh gno - 1 gra - 1 gue - 1 pch han - 1 has - 1 hee - 1 cha hel - 1 chy hen - 1 che ial - 1 iar - 1 ias - 1 iav - 1 kch ica - 1 ici - 1 ied - 1 ody iet - 1 ifa - 1 otc iil - 1 ila - 1 ill - 1 ina - 1 int - 1 dyd iol - 1 dod ipo - 1 ipr - 1 qot iqu - 1 ire - 1 oly irt - 1 dyd isc - 1 ise - 1 iso - 1 iss - 1 eey ite - 1 ito - 1 olo itr - 1 itu - 1 ive - 1 ivi - 1 old lae - 1 ych lan - 1 oii lar - 1 las - 1 lav - 1 ldi - 1 imo leb - 1 inr lec - 1 lee - 1 ind len - 1 inc les - 1 oka let - 1 rch lev - 1 lha - 1 lia - 1 lic - 1 ilp lii - 1 rda lin - 1 lla - 1 iir lli - 1 iil llu - 1 iim lme - 1 lta - 1 orp lus - 1 imy mag - 1 kyt man - 1 she mie - 1 mis - 1 ykc mit - 1 nan - 1 she nat - 1 isy naz - 1 nce - 1 mko ncl - 1 ndi - 1 nea - 1 ned - 1 kya nee - 1 kyd ngr - 1 nid - 1 nie - 1 nim - 1 nis - 1 nit - 1 eol niz - 1 nle - 1 yok nno - 1 noi - 1 nop - 1 nqu - 1 nso - 1 cho nta - 1 yda nzi - 1 chk och - 1 ode - 1 gda oge - 1 pch ogi - 1 oic - 1 olp oid - 1 oip - 1 oqo olo - 1 odq onc - 1 omk ond - 1 ong - 1 oni - 1 onl - 1 kyo opr - 1 orm - 1 qot oro - 1 qoo ort - 1 ost - 1 oyy ote - 1 ovi - 1 ovu - 1 per - 1 sok pez - 1 pin - 1 ady pre - 1 pri - 1 ral - 1 kyd ram - 1 rar - 1 ypc rat - 1 rel - 1 kyg res - 1 rie - 1 kod ril - 1 koi rim - 1 rir - 1 kol riv - 1 rle - 1 rme - 1 otd rog - 1 tpc rop - 1 oos rot - 1 rti - 1 rtu - 1 ydc ruo - 1 sal - 1 alo sar - 1 olk sci - 1 scr - 1 sec - 1 sho sim - 1 yoy sit - 1 soc - 1 hop sor - 1 spi - 1 pad ssa - 1 ryd ssi - 1 eyo sta - 1 sua - 1 dak suo - 1 cho sus - 1 tae - 1 ych taf - 1 tan - 1 dar taq - 1 tar - 1 rpc tas - 1 ald tef - 1 tei - 1 tel - 1 ypo tep - 1 ter - 1 tez - 1 tha - 1 tic - 1 tid - 1 tiq - 1 tod - 1 lgd tor - 1 tra - 1 yky tri - 1 yke tru - 1 tti - 1 tto - 1 hlg tud - 1 dch tur - 1 yyk tut - 1 uai - 1 aks udo - 1 cho uee - 1 uel - 1 uen - 1 che ues - 1 unq - 1 uoi - 1 hoq uov - 1 ura - 1 yky usc - 1 ust - 1 myy utt - 1 ver - 1 vie - 1 vir - 1 ldy vit - 1 vos - 1 hoy vun - 1 zzi - 1

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