Re: VMs: Dating the VM: Preliminary results

[elvogt@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Zitat von Rene Zandbergen <r_zandbergen@xxxxxxxxx>:

> 
> --- elvogt@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> 
> > Some time ago I embarked on a mission to date the VM
> > based on the clothing and 
> > apparel of several of the characters depicted
> > therein. ...
> 
> > Most of the evidence seems to point to 1420-1460,
> > the Lower Rhine area, ie the 
> > border region between Germany, France, and the
> > Netherlands.
> 
> Well, it is quite interesting. At least the time
> frame is again quite close to what others
> have said.

Yeah, most people seem to prefer the mediterranean area, though. This is not 
what the costume analysis seems to indicate.

> 
> As to the geographic area, I have never seen any
> building in the lower Rhine area which has 
> 'ghibbelline' crennelations, like the castle on
> f.86.
> 
> To me, a picture of the VMs author emerges of a
> guy, who has travelled around Europe or at least
> has seen a lot, knows what 'scientific' books
> look like, has an original mind, can write very
> well but cannot draw quite like an artist.

Well, you certainly don't get the kind of imaginative mind you need to come up 
with the VM in the backwater of some god forsaken village... I agree, that guy 
travelled around a lot. Perhaps he deliberately introduced exotic details in 
his images (like an Italian castle, if the VM was intended for a Dutch 
audience, eg) to increase its impact?

I also guess that in any work of that complexity, you'll find internal 
contradictions, and no theory about the origin will explain all detail. (I've 
done some reading regarding the 11th century tapestry of Bayeux, and, boy, 
there are some questions open...)

> 
> A question though, related to the 'Rorschach' 
> effect. The specialty of your friend is not, by
> any chance, specifically medieval clothing in
> the lower Rhine area?

<lol>, no, not really, her forté is Southern Germany, 16th century. (You should 
see some of the costumes she's done...)

Martina (said friend) also drew her conclusions in a kind of "differential 
analysis": "This looks somewhat Italian, but in that case the sleeves would 
narrow down more strongly", so she compared against other options, too. I 
wouldn't let my brother date her, but I've got strong confidence in her 
judgement.

(And she noted that the Sagittarius crossbow-man should have worn shoes with 
way longer tips to fit with his costume, but probably the artist thought a 
citizen-gone-hunting would have changed his boots for something more useful in 
the forests.)

I hope I can get her to compile her ideas within the next weeks or so, and then 
I'll write a short paper about the subject.

> 
> Cheers, Rene
> 

Party on, dudes,

   Elmar


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