Re: VMs: 1006184 & 1006185

["Larry Roux" <LRoux@xxxxxxx>]

Here are a couple

http://www.library.ucla.edu/libraries/biomed/his/immi/vermont/vermontindex2-17.html

http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/wmss/medieval/jpegs/ashmole/1500/




Larry Roux
Syracuse University
lroux@xxxxxxx


>>> w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 06/09/04 10:55AM >>>
Hi

Can you give me some urls for older herbal piccies?

Vines - yes, to be sure - but not all wiped out (cf Chile).  And I'd 
bet that a Roman would recognize current vines as indeed vines.

William


On 9 Jun 2004, at 15:01, Larry Roux wrote:

> Instead of looking at real life examples you should troll the web and 
> look at herbals from the timeframe.  They rarely look much like the 
> plants being depicted.
>
> As for changes over 500 years, in many cases you are correct, but 
> there are certainly a lot of examples of species of plants being 
> changed/overrun over that timeframe.  Heck, the grape plants in France 
> are all less than 100 years old - and all come from California and 
> other countries after the entire group of French vines was wiped out.
>
>
>
>
> Larry Roux
> Syracuse University
> lroux@xxxxxxx 
>
>
>>>> w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx 06/09/04 09:45AM >>>
> Hi
>
> That is fine - but can these experts also offer us some descriptions of
> how the illustrations differ from the plants 'depicted'?  If we had
> that then we'd know more about what allowances to make wrt the VMS
> illustrations.
>
> Please don't misunderstand me.  I'm simply concerned to clarify the
> basis on which people can say of any VMS illustration that it 'is of
> plant xxxxx'.  Currently I'm underwhelmed by any of the suggestions
> offered, and really bothered that I can stroll into my garden to check
> (and look in piles of books I have to support the gardening) and find
> many many important taxonomical differences.  If folk can genuinely
> explain away those differences then let's hear about it.
>
> On the face of it the possibility that plants evolved a lot over 500
> years seems implausible.  That drawings might be
> systematically/stylistically 'erroneous' is interesting but I need the
> evidence.
>
> That's all.
>
> William
>
>
> On 9 Jun 2004, at 12:37, Rene Zandbergen wrote:
>
>>
>> --- William Edmondson <w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> wrote:
>>> Hi
>>>
>>> The point I am trying to make (non-tetchily) is
>>> simply that 'looks-like'
>>> is very subjective.  The drawing in question doesn't
>>> look like a
>>> strawberry plant - any strawberry plant - for a
>>> number of reasons I  listed.
>>
>> It being subjective is true, but the real problem
>> is even worse. It was never really the purpose
>> of ME MS herbals to create lookalikes of the
>> plants, so the same objection could be applied
>> to a great many ME herbal drawings which are
>> known to represent a particular plant (the text
>> being readable).
>> I'm not a medieval herbal expert, but the above
>> statement comes not from me, but from people who
>> are (were).
>>
>> Cheers, Rene
>>
>>
>> 	
>> 		
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> Dr William Edmondson
> School of Computer Science
> University of Birmingham
> Edgbaston B15 2TT
> UK
>
> Voice: +44-121-414-4763
> email: w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxx 
>
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>
Dr William Edmondson
School of Computer Science
University of Birmingham
Edgbaston B15 2TT
UK

Voice: +44-121-414-4763
email: w.h.edmondson@xxxxxxxxxx 

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