Re: Evolution - was VMs: Inks and retouching

[Gabriel Landini <G.Landini@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sunday 01 August 2004 11:41, Koontz John E wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Jul 2004, GC wrote:
> > John, we're in agreement on the <in/ii>.  Can you give me a
> > folio location for your '@'?  Is this EVA?  I still can't find it.

This '@' is eva <u>. It may or may not be in the interlinear files as this is 
a "new" character. You will find it in the new file, whenever this is 
finished.

In my readings, it appears 6 times: 

<f11v.4> qokchor.cholol[o|c]r.chyky.dchy.qoky.-ctho.tchey.tu
<f35v.6> shol.tcheey.chkcheeu...
<f71r.C3> oteeol.otal,chs.char.cheky.chetshy.okeeody.oteey.chekeu{?}...
<f86r6.C7> {00:00}okas.epar.chir,u...
<f89v1.5>   tochoo.cthor.okol.chekaiin.os.aiin.ol.cheo,kchey.qokoiin.du
<f105v.11> roees.aiiin.ol.okaiin.os.aiin.chckhodu...

> Might I also ask, as a latecomer, what the b is, structurally?

Same as above, this is also a "new" character. It is like an all curved <n>.  
It is almost always word final, and preceeded by <e>, <ee> or <eee>. There 
are a few cases of <b> in my reading. It may have been transcribed previously 
by others as <n>.

<f4v.8> oleeb.chor...
<f5r.3> qoaiin.[o|a]tan,chy.daiin.oteeeb...
<f7v.4> choteeeb...
<f14r.12> oeeeb...
<f20r.5> pchocthy.chokoaiin.(cp)y.cheeeb...
<f23v.11> y,okaiin.doroiin.olols.oiin.-ol.cheeb...
<f29v.9> sho.chokor.chor.chy.ydaiin.cho.-ykeeb.-...
<f30r.11> qotchor.cheor.chey.cheor.chey.soee[b|n]...
<f35v.18> daiin.qokeeeb...
<f76v.37> qoeedy.lchedy.cheeb...
<f88r.5> yokeody.cheom.qoor.cheeb.y
<f102v2.9> oldeey.ckhy.sheeody.eeos.she[b|sh]e.
<f106v.30> otaiin.okochey.qody.oeebysarx...

> In essence Grove proposes that EVA approach misanalyzes the glyph level of
> the Voynichese script, but not looking hard enough at the way in which the
> graphs are patterned.  It stops short, fooled by the lack of connections
> in some cases.  

I am not sure it "misanalyzes" because the purpose of it was not the analysis, 
but to help transcription. The "final" alphabet is still open to debate. This 
has been covered too many times in relation to other character groups: 
whether <sh> is <c'h>, <qo> should be a single character, etc. so I will not 
go into that again -- that is what mail archives are for.  :-)

But, yes, it is possible that <n> may indicate that the previous (<e,i>) 
characters are part of the same group.
This opens further questions: what are <i> and <n> on their own? (i.e. no <n> 
after <i> and no <i> before <n>?). Are these the same character ? 
This does not solve the parsing of <iiiin, iiin, iin, in> either:
iiiin = ii+n or i+m?, etc.

The same thing with the <b>, note that the <b> is preceded by <e>.
But I still think that for representation purposes (and transcribing) having 
them separate is more convenient. I seem to recall that the <e>s preceeding 
<b> tend to be connected, but I haven't checked.

No matter how accurate or analytical the representation is done, in some 
circumstances, there is no easy way what each character means, nor that a 
character has a unique meaning. 

For example, in Spanish for "penguin", to make the "u" sound after a "g" in 
"gui, gue" we use a "dieresis" (not sure how this is called in English) on 
the "u": pingüino. 
For somebody who does not know Spanish (and not guessing what a pingüino is!), 
it is impossible in a hand written text to know whether this is "iii", "üi" 
or "iü". The Spanish reader has no problems because the word is read in a 
context (you also know that dieresis on the u, if preceded by g, is  followed 
by i or e, so "iü" is not an option unless it is a foreign word.)

What I mean is that this kind of problem may not be easy to resolve since we 
do not know the underlying language (if any!).

Cheers,

Gabriel

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