[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
Re: VMs: What do you think about Eight?
Hi, Pam, Nick, anybody listening (;-))...
Well, hum, the question Pam asks is what do you think? Pam you although are aware it's the hardest one!
Ah about eight, oh yes. I better see, now. Quite nice a figure, Pam, certainly. You are proposing an excerpt of Agrippa, about "the eight", which is of course very interesting.
Here is a relevant site.
If there is a VMS connection to Dee, then there could be a VMS connection to Agrippa and Trithemius. For sure.
I have no particular idea about the main significance of number eight, some in the list tell that it is the one for death and rebirth:
I certainly donnot disagree. One possible explanation is that after the seven days of creation you have ( plus one ) the backlash to unity, if you are an adept of the pendulum cosmology of course.
Gurdjieff according to some gnostic sources used to say that eight has something to do with the Emerald Tablet and the celestial influences within. Why not, I precisely encountered some alchemical gnostical views on the eight:
This second one is more for fun ( sorry if there is a member in the list, no offense I was really interested in browsing this site ):
I have to admit I am not totally convinced yet by the two above pages; however as perhaps already said, this number eight which is not an apparent big one in alchemy ( my horse for a kingdom ) could nevertheless have some meaningful employment in some cases:
Eight roses petals, why not? Now we are back in the vicinity of VMS:
"we have plenty of
six, seven and even eight-pointed stars with a dot in the center - that has
to mean something good, right?"
and this one, "en cache":
"Possible words to look for:
Tycho Brahe, Tycho de Brahe, Tyge Brahe, Tychonis Brahe,
De Nova Stella (the book he wrote on it), Cassiope,
Cassiopeia, Cassieopeia
I could still be barking up the wrong tree, and it depicts
Kepler's Star-- the supernova of 1604 in Ophiuchus.
One astronomical event that is conspicuous by its absence
is the Great Comet of 1577. I've seen on several websites
a woodcut of the comet as seen over Prague. It may be that
the "galaxy" on f68r is actually the nucleus of the comet, and
f68r2 is its position in the sky.
And f68v3 may be the eclipse of the Moon 8 December 1573.
The female face is the Earth; the rays are from the Sun, which
is covered.
I think the idea that the number of points of a star is a rough
estimate of its magnitude should be abandoned, as it's just
not working out. In Tycho's book, ther!
e is a
picture showing
where the nova was, and all the stars are eight-point, just
different sizes for magnitude."
Pam, do you prefer roses or stars, or do you think that they are bearing the same meaning? Any other thought?
Cheers,
Jean
Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi, Nick , Jean and List!
Here is a quote from Cornelius Agrippa's second Book
of Occult Philosophy on the significance of the number
eight. Any comments are welcome!
Warmly,
Pam
"The Pythagoreans call eight the number of justice,
and fulness: first, because it is first of all divided
into numbers equally even, viz. into four, and that
division is by the same reason made into twice two,
viz. by twice two twice; and by reason of this
equality of division, it took to it self the name of
justice, but the other received the name, viz. of
fulness, by reason of the contexture of the corporeall
solidity, since the first makes a solid body. Hence
that custome of Orpheus, swearing by eight dieties
[deities], if at any time he would beseech divine
justice, whose names are these. Fire, Water, Earth,
the Heaven, Mo!
on, Sun,
Phanes, the Night. There are
also only eight visible Spheres of the heavens: also
by it the property of corporeall nature is signified,
which Orpheus comprehends in eight of his Sea songs.
This is also called the covenant of circumcision,
which was commanded to be done by the Jewes the eight
day.
There were also in the old Law eight ornaments of the
Priest, viz. a breast-plate, a coat, a girdle, a myter
[miter], a robe, an Ephod, a girdle of the Ephod, a
golden plate; hither\ belongs the number to eternity,
and the end of the world, because it follows the
number seven, which is the mysterie [mystery] of time:
hence also the number of blessedness; for Christ
teacheth so many degrees of blessednesses, as you may
see in Matthew: It is also called the number of
safety, and conservation, for there were so many souls
of the sons of Jesse, from which David was the eighth.
Also Zacharias, the father of John, received hisspeech
the eighth day. They say this number was
dedicated to Dionysius, because he was born the eighth
moneth, in everlasting memory whereof, Naxos the Iland
[island] was dedicated to him, which obtained this
prerogative, that only the women of Naxos should
safely bring forth in the eighth moneth, and their
children should live, whereas the children of the
eighth moneth in other Nations dy [die], and their
mothers then bringing forth are in manifest danger.
The Scale of the Number eight.
The name of God with eight letters. Eloha Vadaath úòãå
äåìà Jehovah Vedaath, úòãå äåäé In the Originall.
Eight rewards of the blessed. Inheritance.
Incorruption. Power. Victory. The vision of God.
Grace. A Kingdom. Joy. In the Intelligible world.
Eight visible Heavens. The Starry Heaven. The Heaven
if Saturn. The Heaven of Jupiter. The Heaven of Mars.
The Heaven of the Sun. The Heaven of Venus. The
Heaven of Mercury. The Heaven of the Mo!
on. In
the
Celestiall world.
Eight particular qualities. The dryness of the earth.
The coldness of the water. The moisture of the aire.
The heat of the fire. The heat of the aire. The
moisture of the water. The dryness of the fire. The
coldness of the earth. In the Elementary world.
Eight kinds of blessed men. The peace makers. That
hunger and thirst after righteousness. The meek. They
which are persecuted for righteousness sake. Pure in
heart. Mercifull. Poor in spirit. Mourners. In the
lesser world.
Eight rewards of the damned. Prison. Death. Judgement.
The wrath of God. Darkness. Indignation. Tribulation.
Anguish. In the infernall world."
--- Pamela Richards wrote:
> Hi, Nick!
>
> I'm between your lines below.
>
>
> --- Nick Pelling
> wrote:
>
> For example, I can't
> comfortably place the VMs' 360-deg!
ree
zodiac pages
> as
> a tool for
> psychological astrology at all - it's far more
> likely
> to be a
> late-medieval
> predictive system, derived from the same (probably
> Arabic transmitted)
> school from which Pietro d'Abano's works sprang.
>
> I agree the astrology can't be "psychological".
> Wrong
> historical time. Nick, what do you make of the
> consistent divisions of 360 degrees by eight? I've
> never seen this in Western astrology. What could
> there be eight of?
>
> I will post a link to some information about "eight"
> later on today.
>
> > reconcile
> with post-1600 astrology (and most post-1500
> astrology, too) where that kind of medieval
> thinking has been stripped right out. The question
> for
> the VMs' zodiac section is this: if it's expressing>
some kind of astrological secret,
> what is that secret? Steve Ekwall's belief that it's
> predicting male births (based on the time of
> conception) seems as good as (if not better) any
> other... interesting!>
>
> Yes, but if so, I find that difficult to reconcile
> with Rudolph II's interests, since his only children
> were out of wedlock and he died without an heir. . .
> .unless he was simulaneously fascinated and revulsed
> by the thought of producing more male children. . .
> .
> or perhaps he intended to sell the document to
> someone
> who wanted its contents more than he did.
> Speculation.
>
> I'm going to start with "eight" to try to find
> what's
> unique about this astrological conundrum. I would
> love to hear from anyone who has some ideas.
>
> Warmly,
>
> Pam
>
>
> >
> > You
mentioned astrological alphabets: I set in
> > motion a thread on this
> > theme in 2001, with my "Astrological Alphabet
> > Hypothesis" (AAH) - the basic
> > idea was that (as with numbers), as we can't see
> > astrology anywhere in the
> > VMs, perhaps it's everywhere, embedded in the
> > alphabet itself. IIRC, I
> > found the "17 x 4" ring on f57v suggestive of
> being
> > a sequence of signs and
> > planets, but I'd need to review that evidence
> again,
> > it's a long time ago...
> >
> >
>
http://www.google.com/search?q=site%3Awww.voynich.net+AAH
> >
> > BTW, I'm currently looking for the document I
> wrote
> > summarising the AAH at
> > the time, & will post a link to the list when I
> find
> > it (time to power up
> > my old PC, etc).
> >
&g!
t; >
FWIW, I now see medieval-to-early-modern astrology
> > not in terms of court
> > astrology (ie directing affairs of state, like
> > Frederick II & Nancy
> > Reagan), but rather as a diffusely-located
> > middle-class activity, for those
> > seeking empowerment & self-advancement - where the
> > (slightly more) modern
> > middle-class zeal for information is just a
> > rationalised version of the same.
> >
> > Therefore, the Church's pressure on astrologers to
> > move away from fatalism
> > & determinism (which ultimately produced Ficino
> and
> > modern psychological
> > astrology, so moving from 'prediction' to
> > 'predilection') effectively
> > disempowered the middle classes, removing their
> > aspirations to power by
> > undermining their perceived means to achieve it.
&!
gt;
And
> > the same goes for
> > magic (both demonic and natural) - for example,
> the
> > middle section of
> > William Eamon's (1994) "Science and the Secrets of
> > Nature" (which I've
> > mentioned before on-list) has a fair bit on how
> the
> > Church explicitly saw
> > the expansion of natural magic and the related
> > "naturalism" as threatening
> > its control of its middle-class power-base, which
> I
> > think is all part of
> > the same overall story.
> >
> > I don't know of any good books that cover this
> kind
> > of "social history of
> > astrology" (any recommendations, anyone?), but
> this
> > view does impact on
> > where you place the VMs in the web of history. For
> > example, I can't
> > comfortably place the VMs' 360-degree zodiac pages
&!
gt; >
as a tool for
> > psychological astrology at all - it's far more
> > likely to be a late-medieval
> > predictive system, derived from the same (probably
> > Arabic transmitted)
> > school from which Pietro d'Abano's works sprang.
> >
> > Overall, I think that makes the VMs hard to
> > reconcile with post-1600
> > astrology (and most post-1500 astrology, too)
> where
> > that kind of medieval
> > thinking has been stripped right out. The question
> > for the VMs' zodiac
> > section is this: if it's expressing some kind of
> > astrological secret, what
> > is that secret? Steve Ekwall's belief that it's
> > predicting male births
> > (based on the time of conception) seems as good as
> > (if not better) any
> > other... interesting!
> >
> > Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....>
>
> > PS: nice Lilly site:
> > http://www.skyhook.co.uk/merlin/
> >
> >
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> > To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx
> > with a body saying:
> > unsubscribe vms-list
> >
>
>
> =====
> "I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to
> teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
______________________________________________________________________
> To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx
> with a body saying:
> unsubscribe vms-list
>
=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach t!
en
thousand stars how not to dance."
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list
Créez gratuitement votre Yahoo! Mail avec 100 Mo de stockage !
Créez votre Yahoo! Mail
Le nouveau Yahoo! Messenger est arrivé ! Découvrez toutes les nouveautés pour dialoguer instantanément avec vos amis.
Téléchargez GRATUITEMENT ici !