Re: VMs: What do you think about Eight?

[Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi, Jean, Nick, Dana and any others!

To me, the most intriguing thing about eight is that
because it is so seldom used in Western astrology
there are only a few possible things it might signify.
Due to the paucity of references to eight in
astrology, I have expanded my search for the possible
meanings of eight to the conceptually aligned areas of
magic and gnossis.

I believe chances are good to excellent that Dee would
have read Agrippa, since Dee was a mage and
necessarily would have been familiar with this
widely-published source of information about magic. 
Of course, we know also that it was not necessary for
Dee to have been connected with the VMs, as Jean
pointed out to me in a recent conversation on another
list.

Eight is used consistently through illustrations of
the VMs.  

There is the prominent eight-limbed spiral shape
(Jean, is this the page you call a rose?); in
addition, there are many eight-divided circular
charts, although I am unable to evaluate their precise
incidence because I do not know whether I have viewed
all the circular charts yet.  There are eight of them,
at least; whether there are more, I'm not sure I can
say.

Significantly, I think, to the VMS document is the
reference to the eighth sphere of the heavens, the
sphere of the fixed stars.  These stars would be any
which were "fixed", or non-moving in relation to one
another, in contrast to the "wanderings stars", the
planets.  Each of the fixed stars was said to
represent an angel.  I find this an intriguing
reference because of the many nymphs, each pointing to
a star.  Stars also appear in the margins of one
portion of the document.  

This one-to-one correspondence between slightly
pot-bellied ladies and stars makes me think of the
belief that each person born was thought to have
brought in a immortal spirit connected with the 
effects of a particular, unique star.  The stars are
immortal, so this correspodence is what is said to
give us our immortal natures.  I will look for some
references to contemporary teachings on this subject.

And Agrippa, interestingly, also mentions the number
eight in connection with Orpheus and "corporeall"
existence--life in the mortal body.  Eight was the
number of Orphic hymns.  Orpheus, in Greek mythology,
took on the task of "re-incorporating"  his wife,
Euridice.  This he accomplished through singing his
hymns.  There are those on this list who think certain
parts the material of the VMs are songs, so I wonder
if the reference to Orpheus might interest them.

I believe a theme of the Orphic mystery religion was
reincarnation, which as a topic also brings to mind
the (pregnant?) ladies star-catching (a ritual? 
obtaining immortal spirits for their babies?) on the
pages of the VMs.

I hope you will also have a look at the material on
the Eighth and Ninth which I posted earlier.  The
content ties in to the fixed stars and their role in
creating immortal spirits for mankind.  Interestingly,
the initiation to become one of these "eighth"
entities (stars) involves the initiate's writing a
book in heiroglyphics, a book that is not meant to be
read or understood in the usual sense.  

All very interesting.  We will see where it leads.

Warmly,

Pam

--- jean-yves artero <jyartero@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi, Pam, Nick, anybody listening (;-))...
>  
> Well, hum, the question Pam asks is what do you
> think? Pam you although are aware it's the hardest
> one!
>  
> Ah about eight, oh yes. I better see, now. Quite
> nice a figure, Pam, certainly. You are proposing an
> excerpt of Agrippa, about "the  eight", which is of
> course very interesting.
> 
> Here is a relevant site.
>  
> http://www.esotericarchives.com/agrippa/agrippa2.htm
>  
> If there is a VMS connection to Dee, then there
> could be a VMS connection to Agrippa and Trithemius.
> For sure.
>  
> I have no particular idea about the main
> significance of number eight, some in the list tell
> that it is the one for death and rebirth:
>  
> http://www.voynich.net/Arch/2003/05/msg00104.html
>  
> I certainly donnot disagree. One possible
> explanation is that after the seven days of creation
> you have ( plus one ) the backlash to unity, if you
> are an adept of the pendulum cosmology of course.
>  
> Gurdjieff according to some gnostic sources used to
> say that eight has something to do with the Emerald
> Tablet and the celestial influences within. Why not,
> I precisely encountered some alchemical gnostical
> views on the eight:
>  
> http://www.hermetic.com/sabazius/mass_alch.htm
>  
> This second one is more for fun ( sorry if there is
> a member in the list, no offense I was really
> interested in browsing this site ):
>  
> http://alchemicalorder.com/octagon.htm
>  
> I have to admit I am not totally convinced yet by
> the two above pages; however as perhaps already
> said, this number eight which is not an apparent big
> one in alchemy ( my horse for a kingdom ) could
> nevertheless have some meaningful employment in some
> cases:
>  
> http://www.rosegathering.com/petals.html
>  
> Eight roses petals, why not? Now we are back in the
> vicinity of VMS:
>  
> http://www.voynich.net/Arch/2002/04/msg00103.html
>  
> "we have plenty of
> six, seven and even eight-pointed stars with a dot
> in the center - that has
> to mean something good, right?"
>  
> and this one, "en cache":
>  
>
http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:GeKm8fb1ZjYJ:www.voynich.net/Archive/msg00262.html+EIGHT+NUMBER&hl=fr&safe=vss
>  
> "Possible words to look for:
> 
> Tycho Brahe, Tycho de Brahe, Tyge Brahe, Tychonis
> Brahe,
> De Nova Stella (the book he wrote on it), Cassiope, 
> Cassiopeia, Cassieopeia
> 
> I could still be barking up the wrong tree, and it
> depicts
> Kepler's Star-- the supernova of 1604 in Ophiuchus. 
> 
> One astronomical event that is conspicuous by its
> absence
> is the Great Comet of 1577.  I've seen on several
> websites
> a woodcut of the comet as seen over Prague. It may
> be that
> the "galaxy" on f68r is actually the nucleus of the
> comet, and
> f68r2 is its position in the sky. 
> 
> And f68v3 may be the eclipse of the Moon  8 December
> 1573.
> The female face is the Earth; the rays are from the
> Sun, which
> is covered.
> 
> I think the idea that the number of points of a star
> is a rough
> estimate of its magnitude should be abandoned, as
> it's just
> not working out.  In Tycho's book, there is a
> picture showing
> where the nova was, and all the stars are
> eight-point, just
> different sizes for magnitude."
>  
> Pam, do you prefer roses or stars, or do you think
> that they are bearing the same meaning? Any other
> thought?
>  
> Cheers,
>  
> Jean
> 
> Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi, Nick , Jean and List!
> 
> Here is a quote from Cornelius Agrippa's second Book
> of Occult Philosophy on the significance of the
> number
> eight. Any comments are welcome!
> 
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> Pam
> 
> "The Pythagoreans call eight the number of justice,
> and fulness: first, because it is first of all
> divided
> into numbers equally even, viz. into four, and that
> division is by the same reason made into twice two,
> viz. by twice two twice; and by reason of this
> equality of division, it took to it self the name of
> justice, but the other received the name, viz. of
> fulness, by reason of the contexture of the
> corporeall
> solidity, since the first makes a solid body. Hence
> that custome of Orpheus, swearing by eight dieties
> [deities], if at any time he would beseech divine
> justice, whose names are these. Fire, Water, Earth,
> the Heaven, Moon, Sun, Phanes, the Night. There are
> also only eight visible Spheres of the heavens: also
> by it the property of corporeall nature is
> signified,
> which Orpheus comprehends in eight of his Sea songs.
> This is also called the covenant of circumcision,
> which was commanded to be done by the Jewes the
> eight
> day. 
> 
> There were also in the old Law eight ornaments of
> the
> Priest, viz. a breast-plate, a coat, a girdle, a
> myter
> [miter], a robe, an Ephod, a girdle of the Ephod, a
> golden plate; hither\ belongs the number to
> eternity,
> and the end of the world, because it follows the
> number seven, which is the mysterie [mystery] of
> time:
> hence also the number of blessedness; for Christ
> teacheth so many degrees of blessednesses, as you
> may
> see in Matthew: It is also called the number of
> safety, and conservation, for there were so many
> souls
> of the sons of Jesse, from which David was the
> eighth.
> Also Zacharias, the father of John, received his
> speech the eighth day. They say this number was
> dedicated to Dionysius, because he was born the
> eighth
> moneth, in everlasting memory whereof, Naxos the
> Iland
> [island] was dedicated to him, which obtained this
> prerogative, that only the women of Naxos should
> safely bring forth in the eighth moneth, and their
> children should live, whereas the children of the
> eighth moneth in other Nations dy [die], and their
> mothers then bringing forth are in manifest danger. 
> 
> The Scale of the Number eight.
> The name of God with eight letters. Eloha Vadaath
> úòãå
> äåìà Jehovah Vedaath, úòãå äåäé In the Originall. 
> Eight rewards of the blessed. Inheritance.
> Incorruption. Power. Victory. The vision of God.
> Grace. A Kingdom. Joy. In the Intelligible world. 
> Eight visible Heavens. The Starry Heaven. The Heaven
> if Saturn. The Heaven of Jupiter. The Heaven of
> Mars.
> The Heaven of the Sun. The Heaven of Venus. The
> Heaven of Mercury. The Heaven of the Moon. In the
> Celestiall world. 
> Eight particular qualities. The dryness of the
> earth. 
> The coldness of the water. The moisture of the aire.
> 
> The heat of the fire. The heat of the aire. The
> moisture of the water. The dryness of the fire. The
> coldness of the earth. In the Elementary world. 
> Eight kinds of blessed men. The peace makers. That
> 
=== message truncated ===


=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."

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