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Re: VMs: The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
Greetings, Pam and List!
Here is the relevant page:
This site is very interesting indeed, because it helds numerous Nag Hammadi and more generally numerous gnostic texts. Thanks, Pam.
I am not sure to see a direct link to VMS, but of course while investigating the eight you have to do such discoveries. About the ninth...
I am still a bit skeptical, forgive me: of course 7+1 = 8, ( as already commented ) then beyond the death and rebirth you could well find God.
Why not, after all? I mean that every Pythagorean should know too that 9+1 = 10, which is the achievement in the whole? Then you can start again, 0,1...unless of course you are a programmer, which leads you obviously to other possibilities.
OK enough for fun, are there "number nine series" in VMS? let s see, here are some thoughts about Pleiades,
and here is an example of mail about the nine-rosette diagram,
but perhaps I missed something? Finally, I am certainly surprised by two sequences of the NH treatise Pam brought to the list's attention:
"He is perfect, the invisible God to whom one speaks in silence - his image is moved when it is directed, and it governs - the one mighty power, who is exalted above majesty, who is better than the honored (ones), Zoxathazo a oo ee ooo eee oooo ee oooooo ooooo oooooo uuuuuu oooooooooooo ooo Zozazoth."
"Grace! After these things, I give thanks by singing a hymn to you. For I have received life from you, when you made me wise. I praise you. I call your name that is hidden within me: a o ee o eee ooo iii oooo ooooo ooooo uuuuuu oo ooooooooo ooooooooo oo."
In the second one if o is ( sometimes ) null, you have A E I O U: Austria's legend is there! Habsburg family, RII: Definitely voynichese.
Cheers,
Jean
Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Greetings, List!
I hope list members will forgive me for posting a long
message, but for the moment my browser is not working
properly and I am not able to post links.
In further researching the significance of eight, I
came across this interesting treatise. It describes
an initiation into the *eighth* sphere, which is
generally described as the sphere beyond the seven
spheres of the seven planets. The eighth sphere is
the sphere of the "fixed stars". The ninth sphere,
not discussed here, is held to be God. I found it
fascinating that one of the required steps of the
initiation is to write a book in heiroglyphics.
Within the first paragraphs, we hear verbal reference
to the Sun, pregnancy, birth of brothers, fountains.
Here is the passage that concerns the writing of the
book, followed by the longer passage:
"My son,
write this book for the temple at Diospolis
in hieroglyphic characters, entitling it 'The Eighth
Reveals the Ninth.'"
"I will do it, my , as you command now."
"My , write the language of the book on steles of
turquoise. My son, it is proper to write this book on
steles of turquoise, in hieroglyphic characters. For
Mind himself has become overseer of these. Therefore,
I command that this teaching be carved on stone, and
that you place it in my sanctuary. Eight guardians
guard it with [...] of the Sun. The males on the right
are frog-faced, and the females on the left are
cat-faced. And put a square milk-stone at the base of
the turquoise tablets, and write the name on the azure
stone tablet in hieroglyphic characters. My son, you
will do this when I am in Virgo, and the sun is in the
first half of the day, and fifteen degrees have passed
by me."
"My father, everything that you say I will do
eagerly."
Interesting. I take it the initiate refers to stars
as his brothers, and that he is being re-born as a
star.
Any comments?
Warmly,
Pam
THE GNOSTIC SOCIETY LIBRARY
The Nag Hammadi Library
The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Translated by James Brashler, Peter A. Dirkse, and
Douglas M. Parrott
"My father, yesterday you promised me that you would
bring my mind into the eighth and afterwards you would
bring me into the ninth. You said that this is the
order of the tradition."
"My son, indeed this is the order. But the promise was
according to human nature. For I told you when I
initiated the promise, I said, 'If you hold in mind
each one of the steps.' After I had received the
spirit through the power, I set forth the action for
you. Indeed, the understanding dwells in you; !
in
me
(it is) as though the power were pregnant. For when I
conceived from the fountain that flowed to me, I gave
birth."
"My father, you have spoken every word well to me. But
I am amazed at this statement that you have just made.
For you said, 'The power that is in me'."
He said, "I gave birth to it (the power), as children
are born."
"Then, my father, I have many brothers, if I am to be
numbered among the offspring."
"Right, my son! This good thing is numbered by ... (3
lines missing) ... and [...] at all times. Therefore,
my son, it is necessary for you to recognize your
brothers and to honor them rightly and properly,
because they come from the same father. For each
generation I have called. I have named it, because
they were offspring like these sons."
"Then, my father, do they have (a) day?"
"My son, they are spiritual ones. For they exist as
forces that grow other souls. Therefore I say thatthey
are immortal."
"Your word is true; it has no refutation from now on.
My father, begin the discourse on the eighth and the
ninth, and include me also with my brothers."
"Let us pray, my son, to the father of the universe,
with your brothers who are my sons, that he may give
the spirit of eloquence."
"How do they pray, my father, when joined with the
generations? I want to obey, my father."
(2 lines missing) ... But it is not [...]. Nor is it a
[...]. But he is satisfied with her [...] him [...].
And it is right for you to remember the progress that
came to you as wisdom in the books, my son. Compare
yourself to the early years of life. As children (do),
you have posed senseless, unintelligent questions."
"My father, the progress that has come to me now, and
the foreknowledge, according to the books, that has
come to me, exceeding the deficiency - these things
are foremost in me."
"My son, when you und!
erstand
the truth of your
statement, you will find your brothers, who are my
sons, praying with you."
"My father, I understand nothing else except the
beauty that came to me in the books."
"This is what you call the beauty of the soul, the
edification that came to you in stages. May the
understanding come to you, and you will teach."
"I have understood, my father, each one of the books.
And especially the ... (2 lines missing) ... which is
in [...]."
"My son, [...] in praises from those who extolled
them."
"My father, from you I will receive the power of the
discourse that you will give. As it was told to both
(of us), let us pray, my father."
"My son, what is fitting is to pray to God with all
our mind and all our heart and our soul, and to ask
him that the gift of the eighth extend to us, and that
each one receive from him what is his. Your part,
then, is to understand; my own is to be able to
delive!
r the
discourse from the fountain that flows to
me."
"Let us pray, my father: I call upon you, who rules
over the kingdom of power, whose word comes as (a)
birth of light. And his words are immortal. They are
eternal and unchanging. He is the one whose will
begets life for the forms in every place. His nature
gives form to substance. By him, the souls of the
eighth and the angels are moved ... (2 lines missing)
... those that exist. His providence extends to
everyone [...] begets everyone. He is the one who
[...] the aeon among spirits. He created everything.
He who is self-contained cares for everything. He is
perfect, the invisible God to whom one speaks in
silence - his image is moved when it is directed, and
it governs - the one mighty power, who is exalted
above majesty, who is better than the honored (ones),
Zoxathazo a oo ee ooo eee oooo ee oooooo ooooo oooooo
uuuuuu oooooooooooo ooo Zozazoth.
"Lord, grant !
us a
wisdom from your power that reaches
us, so that we may describe to ourselves the vision of
the eighth and the ninth. We have already advanced to
the seventh, since we are pious and walk in your law.
And your will we fulfill always. For we have walked in
your way, and we have renounced [...], so that your
vision may come. Lord, grant us the truth in the
image. Allow us through the spirit to see the form of
the image that has no deficiency, and receive the
reflection of the pleroma from us through our praise.
"And acknowledge the spirit that is in us. For from
you the universe received soul. For from you, the
unbegotten one, the begotten one came into being. The
birth of the self-begotten one is through you, the
birth of all begotten things that exist. Receive from
us these spiritual sacrifices, which we send to you
with all our heart and our soul and all our strength.
Save that which is in us and grant us the
immortal
wisdom."
"Let us embrace each other affectionately, my son.
Rejoice over this! For already from them the power,
which is light, is coming to us. For I see! I see
indescribable depths. How shall I tell you, my son?
[...] from the [...] the places. How shall I describe
the universe? I am Mind, and I see another Mind, the
one that moves the soul! I see the one that moves me
from pure forgetfulness. You give me power! I see
myself! I want to speak! Fear restrains me. I have
found the beginning of the power that is above all
powers, the one that has no beginning. I see a
fountain bubbling with life. I have said, my son, that
I am Mind. I have seen! Language is not able to reveal
this. For the entire eighth, my son, and the souls
that are in it, and the angels, sing a hymn in
silence. And I, Mind, understand."
"What is the way to sing a hymn through it (silence)?"
"Have you become such that you cannot!
be
spoken to?"
"I am silent, my father. I want to sing a hymn to you
while I am silent."
"Then sing it, for I am Mind."
"I understand Mind, Hermes, who cannot be interpreted,
because he keeps within himself. And I rejoice, my
father, because I see you smiling. And the universe
rejoices. Therefore, there is no creature that will
lack your life. For you are the lord of the citizens
in every place. Your providence protects. I call you
'father', 'aeon of the aeons', 'great divine spirit'.
And by a spirit he gives rain upon everyone. What do
you say to me, my father, Hermes?"
"Concerning these things, I do not say anything, my
son. For it is right before God that we keep silent
about what is hidden."
"Trismegistus, let not my soul be deprived of the
great divine vision. For everything is possible for
you as master of the universe."
"Return to , my son, and sing while you are
silent. Ask what you wan!
t in
silence."
What he had finished praising, he shouted, "Father
Trismegistus! What shall I say? We have received this
light. And I myself see this same vision in you. And I
see the eighth, and the souls that are in it, and the
angels singing a hymn to the ninth and its powers. And
I see him who has the power of them all, creating
those in the spirit."
"It is advantageous from now on, that we keep silence
in a reverent posture. Do not speak about the vision
from now on. It is proper to sing a hymn to the father
until the day to quit (the) body."
"What you sing, my father, I too want to sing."
"I am singing a hymn within myself. While you rest
yourself, be active in praise. For you have found what
you seek."
"But is it proper, my father, that I praise because I
am filled in my heart?"
"What is proper is your praise that you will sing to
God, so that it might be written in this imperishablebook."
"I will offer up the praise in my heart, as I pray to
the end of the universe and the beginning of the
beginning, to the object of man's quest, the immortal
discovery, the begetter of light and truth, the sower
of reason, the love of immortal life. No hidden word
will be able to speak about you, Lord. Therefore, my
mind wants to sing a hymn to you daily. I am the
instrument of your spirit; Mind is your plectrum. And
your counsel plucks me. I see myself! I have received
power from you. For your love has reached us."
"Right, my son."
"Grace! After these things, I give thanks by singing a
hymn to you. For I have received life from you, when
you made me wise. I praise you. I call your name that
is hidden within me: a o ee o eee ooo iii oooo ooooo
ooooo uuuuuu oo ooooooooo ooooooooo oo. You are the
one who exists with the spirit. I sing a hymn to you
reverently."
"My son, write this book for the temple at
Diospolis
in hieroglyphic characters, entitling it 'The Eighth
Reveals the Ninth.'"
"I will do it, my , as you command now."
"My , write the language of the book on steles of
turquoise. My son, it is proper to write this book on
steles of turquoise, in hieroglyphic characters. For
Mind himself has become overseer of these. Therefore,
I command that this teaching be carved on stone, and
that you place it in my sanctuary. Eight guardians
guard it with [...] of the Sun. The males on the right
are frog-faced, and the females on the left are
cat-faced. And put a square milk-stone at the base of
the turquoise tablets, and write the name on the azure
stone tablet in hieroglyphic characters. My son, you
will do this when I am in Virgo, and the sun is in the
first half of the day, and fifteen degrees have passed
by me."
"My father, everything that you say I will do
eagerly."
"And write an oath in th!
e book,
lest those who read
the book bring the language into abuse, and not (use
it) to oppose the acts of fate. Rather, they should
submit to the law of God, without having transgressed
at all, but in purity asking God for wisdom and
knowledge. And he who will not be begotten at the
start by God comes to be by the general and guiding
discourses. He will not be able to read the things
written in this book, although his conscience is pure
within him, since he does not do anything shameful,
nor does he consent to it. Rather, by stages he
advances and enters into the way of immortality. And
thus he enters into the understanding of the eighth
that reveals the ninth."
"So shall I do it, my father."
"This is the oath: I make him who will read this holy
book swear by heaven and earth, and fire and water,
and seven rulers of substance, and the creating spirit
in them, and the God, and the
self-begotten one, and him !
who has
been begotten, that
he will guard the things that Hermes has said. And
those who keep the oath, God will be reconciled with
them and everyone whom we have named. But wrath will
come to each one of those who violate the oath. This
is the perfect one who is, my son."
Selection made from James M. Robinson, ed., The Nag
Hammadi Library, revised edition. HarperCollins, San
Francisco, 1990.
| Nag Hammadi Library | Gnostic Society Library |
Gnosis Archive
=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."
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