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Re: VMs: Modern Astrology vs. Traditional Astrology

Hi, Nick

So far, I feel confident the kitten is safe!  Smile.

Modern astrology, as defined by an astrologer (not a
non-astrologer; God knows what it means to the
non-astrologer) is astrology which developed after the
late nineteenth century and sprang up, thanks to the
likes of Madame Blavatsky and Edmund Marc Jones and
his Sabian symbols, without the benefit of the
millennia-old astrological tradition.  The older
tradition had gone by the wayside, as I have
mentioned, with the Age of Enlightenment.  Modern
astrology developed a sideline in the study of
Midpoints with Ebertin in the thirties, just before 
it eventually bloomed into full view with Jung and his
archetypal techniques.  Psychological astrology is now
practiced as a means of comparing "myths" suggested by
planetary positions with the native's birth chart. 
Any emphasis on prediction is strongly discouraged out
of respect for the native's "free will".  

Modern astrologers use Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto in
addition to the traditional seven planets.  Midpoints
are used, as are "transneptunaian objects" and

Traditional astrologers use none of the above, confine
themselves to techniques used by the ancients, and
concern themselves with harsh realities like
predicting events, possible psychic damage due to loss
of "free will" notwithstanding.  The working of Fate
is essential to our accuracy.  If "free will"
determined events, when would our predictions ever be

And that's not to say that no one ever practiced
astrology between 1700 and 1900.  But if you run down
some research, you will find very little was published
during that time, so the few practitioners must have
been using very old books.  And the devastating
attrition in the ranks of practicing astrologers is
what I call the cataclysm in astrology.

As a non-astrologer, you may find this list of
techniques and intentions quite dull.  I apologise;
but the point is, what a modern astrologer does has
very, very little to do with what a traditional
astrologer does.   

Ficino did not use the planets Uranus, Neptune, or
Pluto in his work.  Ah!  you say. . ."They were not
discovered yet!"  Precisely my point.

And as for those who claim Ficino as the first "modern
psychological" astrologer, I believe they have no idea
what they are saying about the actual practice of
astrology, and are reading "trends in astrology"
backwards from Jung.  Jung dabbled in alchemy, after
all. . .if this keeps up, they will claim Plato soon;
and then Trismegestis himself. . . or perhaps the
trend will not reverse until we reach Zarathustra.

And you can have my kitten if you can show me a single
reference in the work of Ficino to the planet Uranus,
Neptune, Pluto, the asteroids, Chiron, midpoints, or
Jung's archetypes--seeing as Ficino predated Jung by
over four hundred years.  But I am hardly afraid I
will be at risk of handing over my little friend.  I
have a feeling he's safe with me.  Smile.

Some concepts behind "modern psychological" astrology
may resemble in a rather vague way something Ficino
did or said, but I'm afraid it's much too far of a
stretch to say Ficino invented modern "psychological
astrology".  Last time I checked, the father of
psychology was still Freud.

Yep, Robert Zoller got my money. . . and for that and
passing a skills test in the techniques he taught me,
I got a CMA with his name on it.  Just to clear up a
little point; you can't "buy" such a certificate, much
as many would like to.  Grin.



--- Nick Pelling <nickpelling@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi Pamela,
> At 06:30 27/09/2004 -0700, Pamela Richards wrote:
> >If someone has told you that "modern astrology is
> >essentially Ficianan" astrology, I am afraid they
> have
> >misrepresented both Ficianan and modern astrology. 
> In
> >fact, I will bet you my favorite kitten that the
> >person who said that was not an astrologer, and of
> >course, was entirely modern.
> >And I do love my favorite kitten.
> You may be placing your favourite kitten in somewhat
> unnecessary jeopardy 
> here. :-o
> I should first of all say that I'm very pleased that
> we have a predictive 
> astrologer on-list - I wasn't aware of that before,
> sorry for skipping that 
> line on your mini-bio. Anyone who has sent Bob
> Zoller money is pretty much 
> OK by me. :-)
> However, the cataclysm in astrology is a thing I
> have read about in many, 
> many (15? 20?) separate places (Ioan Couliano's
> excellent "Eros and Magic 
> in the Renaissance" springs immediately to mind, but
> that is merely one of 
> many), dating to 1480-1520, and located squarely in
> Florence - specifically 
> at the hands of such prominent individuals as Pico
> della Mirandola and 
> Marsilio Ficino.
> "What is astrology for?", Ficino asked - and
> proceeded, in the humanist 
> style I've mentioned in recent posts, to devise a
> new conceptual framework 
> that satisfied the many diverse constraints of his
> religious and political 
> context. At that point, astrology started on a
> different, internal, more 
> psychologically-focused course, from which the
> modern tradition eventually 
> developed: what changed was not really the
> astrophysical mechanics (that 
> was merely a matter of precision), but the purpose
> of the activity. Ficino 
> transformed it into something more like modern
> psychoanalysis (if you 
> believe Thomas Moore's "The Planets Within", etc(.
> I'll try to dig up some proper references for you
> (but please keep the 
> kitten). :-)
> Cheers, .....Nick Pelling..... 
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"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."

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