Re: VMs: Jung and Modern/Traditional Astrology?

[Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi, Adam

Yes, it seems you have stated my thoughts on this
matter clearly.

Nice to have you around!  Chip in any time.

Warmly,

Pam




--- Adam <adampack2001@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I think perhaps it seems to some that the idea that
> Jungian psychology is being read back to his
> sources, which while valid to some extent, can be
> taken too far, in the same way that one could read
> back genetic theory into Darwin or QED into Newton,
> if you see what I mean.
>  
> I don't know whether that's applicable here though,
> and the exchange is very interresting to me at
> least.
> 
> Adam.
> 
> Pamela Richards <spirlhelix@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hi, CW
> 
> I fear you have missed the point of the thread, at
> least the portion I am responsible for. To the
> degree
> that this is my doing, I do beg your forgiveness. In
> a nutshell, Nick and I looking for common ground to
> discuss the astrology of the VMs. At the moment, we
> are thrashing out the validity of historic
> astrological sources in relation to the VMs. Which
> has led to the question:
> 
> Can we throw out as valid probable astrological
> influences on the VMs the work of any or all of the
> historical forerunners of Jung's approach to
> astrology
> as "too modern?" 
> 
> If so, which sources are not "too modern", since
> Jung
> relied on most of the well-known historical sources
> to
> a greater or lesser degree?
> 
> Thank you for the lucid analogy you have provided.
> To
> make use of it for a moment, if nuclear physicists
> used lead and gold in their experiments, ought we to
> eliminate lead and gold as substances "too modern"
> to
> have been mentioned in the VMs? Which substances
> then
> can we include?
> 
> If you find nothing of interest in this topic,
> perhaps
> you would care to initiate some topics of your own
> for
> the list to comment on.
> 
> You might find a few people who share common
> interests
> with you that way. Who knows where it might lead?
> 
> Some other suggestions for those whose forbearance
> flags:
> 
> Do some research 
> 
> Ask some questions
> 
> Develop some patience
> 
> Skip the posts on subjects which trouble you (see
> the
> subject line). Rene described this technique
> yesterday, and I wholeheartedly endorse it. I use it
> a lot with technical posts about cryptology, which
> are
> often beyond my scope.
> 
> I have found that broad-minded people are very
> tolerant folk who, at best, find interest in many
> topics. At worst, they make little complaint when
> confronted with a variety of ideas.
> 
> Wishing the best of all that's good to you!
> 
> Warmly,
> 
> Pam
> 
> 
> --- CWLee wrote:
> 
> > 
> > While probably "interesting" to some on the list,
> I
> > find
> > this discussion about Jung and various
> astrological
> > approaches harder and harder to connect to the
> > Voynich
> > Manuscript (VM), and to potential methods to solve
> > it.
> > 
> > I believe 20th Century nuclear physicists
> > demonstrated very
> > expensive ways to change small amounts of lead
> into
> > gold - a
> > long held goal of medieval alchemists. Perhaps the
> > VM
> > discusses some then-contemporary approaches to
> that
> > task. I
> > don't believe, however, that we would advance our
> > understanding of the VM by comparing and
> contrasting
> > various
> > methodologies associated with the lead-to-gold
> > attempts over
> > the centuries since its probable creation.
> > 
> > Best regards to all.
> > 
> > ===========================
> > 
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Pamela Richards" 
> > To: 
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 2004 8:56 PM
> > Subject: Re: Re: VMs: Modern Astrology vs.
> > Traditional
> > Astrology
> > 
> > 
> > > Hi, Nick!
> > >
> > > Now you've gone and done it. . . I'm usually
> > quite
> > > cautious about reading very many modern
> historians
> > so
> > > I won't become too biased to modern thinking.
> But
> > now
> > > I have become curious about the ideas behind
> > Jung's
> > > development of "psychological astrology."
> > >
> > > I found this article shed an interesting light,
> if
> > you
> > > don't object to looking at it from my point of
> > view
> > > for a moment.
> > >
> > > Let's say it's my contention that Ficino was not
> > the
> > > originator of "modern psychological" astrology
> > except
> > > by Jung's own hand; that Ficino himself had
> > > antecedents which were known to Jung, and used
> by
> > him;
> > > and that the reason "modern psychological"
> > astrology
> > > fits so well with certain conceptual themes of
> > Ficino
> > > is that Jung pretty much modelled his work on
> that
> > of
> > > Ficino, Plato, neoplatonists, gnostic tradition,
> > > alchemy, etc. And that Ficino was not the
> founder
> > of
> > > Jung's school, but rather that Jung was indebted
> > to
> > > Ficino, as well as others.
> > >
> > > So if it were not for Jung and his openness to
> > these
> > > themes, you would not have a Ficinian basis of
> > "modern
> > > psychological" astrology.
> > > And as several of Ficino's acknowledged
> > antecedants
> > > were consciously utilized by Jung as well,
> Ficino
> > is
> > > actually a questionable founder of "modern
> > > psychological" astrology, as far as I can tell.
> > >
> > > This is apart from the question of technique,
> > > intention, and application of astrology.
> > >
> > > I would have no problem saying that
> > conceptually(apart
> > > from the problem of intention, technique, and
> > > application) Ficino was an antecedent or
> precursor
> > of
> > > "modern psychological" astrology, right along
> with
> > > Plato, Hermes Trismegistus (I know he is perhaps
> > not a
> 
=== message truncated ===


=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."

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