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VMs: f17r marginalia - Mattioli / Lobelius / Brumbaugh / Poundstone...?
Hi everyone,
At 00:22 30/11/2004 -0800, Rene Zandbergen wrote:
I suspect that there may be a little misunderstanding.
The emperor who wrote the marginalia in the
code book was not Rudolf II, but
Friedrich III (1415-1493) (Roman-German king and
emperor).
http://www.geschichte.uni-muenchen.de/ghw/geheimschriften/g6.shtml
This reminded me of a question I meant to ask about the f17r marginalia:
Poundstone/Brumbaugh suggested that this might read "Mattioli ...",
referring to Pietro Andrea Gregorio Mattioli's "Di Pedacio Dioscoride
Anazarbeo Libri Cinque", translation of Dioscorides' famous Greek herbal -
a Latin translation in 1544 & a German translation printed in 1558, as per:-
http://www.lombardmaps.com/cat/botanicals/mattioli.htm
Now, according to http://www.voynich.nu/q03/index.html#f17 , this was "once
(but no longer) believed to be a reference to the herbal of Pier Andrea
Mattioli": but note that Jim Reeds noted on-list (Sat Apr 19th 1997):-
My question is: why are we talking about Mattioli? Where did
this idea
connecting him to f17r come from? There is no other mention of
him in my
collection of email correspondence. He is not in Brumbaugh's index
or in
D'Imperio's index.
There is a passage on p.128 of Brumbaugh's book: "And on folio 17r,
some owner has noted at the top that part of the plant drawing
seems to
come from the herbal of Matthew Lobelius, published in 1570." But of
course Mathias de l'Obel, also known as de Lobel or Lobelius
(1538-1616),
is not the same person as Pierandrea Mattioli, also known as
Matthiolus
(1501-1577).
Mike Roe followed this up on-list (on Mon Apr 21st 1997) with a reference
to sci.crypt post/thread from 1991 (pre-vms-list, does anyone have a copy
of this?):-
At the top of 17r, there is a small note in a different hand from
the rest of
the MS. Part of this note looks a little bit like "Mathian" (in
the latin
alphabet). Someone has clearly had a big leap of imagination and
connected
this with the herbal of Matthiolaus. Several authors (including
Poundstone
and Brumbaugh) have perpetuated this idea.
[ The 'herbal of Matthiolaus' connection was discussed on
sci.crypt in Novemeber
'91, just before the Voynich mailing list was set up.
(Particularly,
John Baez's posting of 13 Nov 1991 and my posting of 16 Nov 1991).
]
This was followed up by Karl Kluge, 15th Mar 1998:-
Poundstone says
"To add to the confusion, folio 17 contains a tiny note in
Middle
High German, not necessarily by the original author, talking
about
the Herbal of Matthiolaus."
My notes on Brumbaugh's book indicate "f17r -- some owner has
noted that
part of the plant drawing seems to come from the 1570 herbal of
Matthew
Lobelius."
Is there one note on f17 or two, and if only one then which is the
correct
reading? Here's a brief precis of the info on both authors from
Blunt and
Raphael's _Illustrated Herbal_:
Pierandrea Mattioli 1501-77: born in Siena, studied in Venice and
Padua
before returning to practice in Siena, then Rome. Left Rome after
sack
by Chas. V in 1527. Next 14 years in Valle Anania near Trent, then 14
years as town physician of Gorizia.
1544 non-illustrated version of herbal published in Italian
1554 first illustrated edition
1555 Mattioli summoned to Prague by Emp. Ferdinand I to
treat son
1562 publication of folio edition in Czech
1577 Matiolli retires to Trento
In later years became rabidly pro-Dioscorides, causing problems
for some of
his opponents. Note the Prague connection.
Matthias de L'Obel (Lobelius): b. in Lille in 1528; studied under
Rondelet
at Montpellier.
1566 (May) Rondelet dies, leaving his mss. to Lobelius
1569 publication of _Stirpium Adversaria Nova_,
coauthored with Pena
1581 publishes book which classifies plants based on the
character of their leaves; named personal physician to
William of Orange
1607 appointed _Botanicus Regius_ to James I of England
1616 dies at Highgate
A "high-flyer", rising fast professionally for unclear reasons.
Can somebody check both the Mss. copyflow and Peterson for this
note to
verify what the correct reading is?
BTW, there's a web page from the ASU Special Collections library
Patten
collection of herbals:
http://www.asu.edu/lib/speccoll/patten/html/index.html
Rene then replied (16th Mar 1998):-
I would love to know where Poundstone got his information.
His sounds like a statement, not a guess. The source would have
been pretty certain about it. Given that it says middle
high German, one could think of E. Panofski or Charles Singer.
Thirdly Richard Salomon, the source of the 'der Mussdel'
reading, but I know nothing about him or any publication
by him.
As Karl points out, Mattioli has a strong Prague connection
and his student Hajek was very influential at Rudolph's
court. The connection of the note on top of f17r seems
to be not all that strong, alas, unless the source for
the identification becomes better known.
> Can somebody check both the Mss. copyflow and Peterson for
> this note to verify what the correct reading is?
I have tried and failed. I am not even sure where in this
line it is supposed to contain the name. It must be in the
very beginning, but it only becomes half legible after that.
...which is roughly where the whole thread tapers away to nothingness.
Back to the question I was about to ask - now that we have good quality
images of f17r, what do you think the writing in the top margin probably
refers to? Mattioli, Lobelius, or something/someone else entirely?
FWIW, the #1 problem with either herbal writer IMHO is the handwriting,
which seems (to my eyes, anyway) to be Central European circa 1500 (at the
latest), & not really to 1570-1600 (ie post-dating Mattioli's herbal or
Lobelius' "Stirpium Adversaria Nova") - but all the same, evidence is
evidence, and what it says is what it says. :-o
Cheers, .....Nick Pelling.....
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