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Re: VMs: Pleiades Occultation Further Date Refinement



Hi, Dennis

Courtesy requires that I acknowledge your kindness in
extending your sympathy for my condition.  So thank
you for your condolences.

However, I am not attempting to appeal to your
sympathy, but rather to your use of logic.  I have
clearly failed so far, so I will attempt to make my
point one more time.  If I fail again, I think I've
given this subject enough attention for now, and I
will desist.

There are many works of art in the world.

A work of art can have any subject the artist wishes
it to.

Some works of art have traits that bear a resemblance
to the experience of a migraine.

Some do not.

Some of the works of art which bear a resemblance to
the experience of a migraine are created by
migraineurs.

Some of the works of art which bear a resemblance to
the experience of a migraine are not created by
migraineurs--they only bear a resemblance to work
created by migraineurs.

We cannot distinguish between the last two categories
without knowing whether the artist is indeed a
migraineur.  

The only way to diagnose migraine is to hear the
patient/artist's medical history--their description of
their own subjective experience.

Furthermore,

Some artists who are migrainuers do not choose to
create works which resemble the experience of a
migraine.  

Some do.

So even if we were to prove that the VMs artist was
beyond a doubt a migraineur, based on medical evidence
(the patient's history), we must acknowledge that he
may have chosen to represent subject matter other than
the experience of a migraine in the VMs.

To say that we can diagnose migraine from artwork
without knowledge of its provenance, or the medical
history of the artist, or a description of the
artist's intention in undertaking the work is to
invent some sort of a mixture of the above categories
without regard to order.

We may have a hypothesis that the VMs artist had
migraines, but that statement in itself is a bit of a
non sequitur.  We don't even know who he is yet, and
what his medical history is, and we don't have a
translation of the material surrounding the
illustrations, so we don't know what the artist says
they illustrate.

Since we have so little to go on, if we choose to use
the illustrations to provide clues to the text, it is
a better use of logic to begin with the assumption
that the artist is using symbols with the intention of
communicating meaning to his viewer, not simply to
express a subjective experience that few share with
him.  The latter assumption is not likely to add much
to our understanding of the context of the document.

All of that is humbly my opinion.  That and a dollar
and nine cents will get you a cup of coffee at the
Pepper Pod in Newport, Ky.

Warmly,

Pam


--- Dennis <tsalagi@xxxxxxxx> wrote:

> 	Hi, Pam,
> 
> 	All your points are well taken.  I still think that
> if we 
> see several features of the migraine syndrome in the
> VMs 
> imagery, the migraine hypothesis could be
> worthwhile.  Stars 
> which might be phosphenes are hardly enough.
> 
> 	An expert's opinion obviously would be very
> worthwhile.  I 
> might be able to get one from my former headache
> doc, 
> although not soon.
> 
> 	I feel for you if you have classical migraine!  I
> am very 
> thankful I no longer have the daily headaches I used
> to.
> 
> Dennis
> 
> Pamela Richards wrote:
> 
> > Hi, Dennis
> > 
> > I had a look at the "migraine art", too.  This is
> a
> > genre developed at the request of medical
> > professionals who asked migrainuers to share their
> > impressions of the experience using the media of
> their
> > choice.
> > 
> > In fact, I hope we can make a distinction here: 
> one
> > cannot judge whether or not an artist is a
> migraineur
> > by looking at their work, overall.  The artist may
> or
> > may not choose to depict the effects of a migraine
> as
> > a subject of their work.
> > 
> > So even after viewing the artwork you described, I
> > still feel it is safe to say that we cannot know
> > whether the VMs artist, or any artist, is a
> migraineur
> > unless we have access to a record of his
> subjective
> > experiences--such as is used by a physician to
> make a
> > diagnosis of migraine.
> > 
> > And I'm afraid we are still far from this point
> with
> > our VMs author/illustrator (actually, we do not
> even
> > know whether the author is the illustrator, or
> not). 
> > 
> > Most of the resources I find refer to phosphenes
> as
> > "flashes" or "sparks".  These terms do nothing to
> > enhance the impression that phosphenes are
> experienced
> > as long-lasting impressions of light relegated to
> one
> > precise area of the visual field.
> > In fact, if I encountered anything like that, I
> would
> > be suspicious about such visual disturbances and
> check
> > with an opthamologist to make sure there is not a
> > problem with the retina.
> > 
> > I have been diagnosed with classical migraines,
> also
> > known as visual migraines, or migraine explosions.
> 
> > Send your snail mail address if you would like a
> > statement from my doctor.  Smile.  My own
> experience
> > with phosphenes is that they are shimmering, which
> by
> > definition means that they do not occupy a certain
> > "location" in the visual field for any length of
> time
> > greater than a fraction of a second.  Although
> they
> > cluster in a certain region, this cluster
> continually
> > moves through the visual field.  These phosphenes
> do
> > not leave me with an impression of a certain point
> of
> > light in a specific area of my visual field; in
> fact,
> > to the contrary, by the time they fade, there is
> > nothing but a blind spot left where the shimmering
> > lights of the phosphenes used to be.
> > 
> > You have your subjective experience, and I have
> mine. 
> > If we were to compare your artwork depicting your
> > experience and mine, we would still need a record
> of
> > our subjective experience to demonstrate that we
> were
> > expressing our experience of our respective
> phosphenes
> > and not something else.  And even then, some
> people
> > would not be convinced without a doctor's
> statment.
> 
>
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=====
"I'd rather learn from one bird how to sing, than to teach ten thousand stars how not to dance."

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