Re: VMs: Re: "OT/Local?"

[Koontz John E <John.Koontz@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Tue, 31 May 2005, steve ekwall wrote:
> "_EACH_ voynich character".. IS A "_Pointer_ Character! :-)

In other words, a pointer in an array of characters enabling one, starting
at some known point, to locate the next character by following the
pointer?

> o..... "THE _Structure_" of EACH of the individual "weird characters"
> shapes, [that no one can identify in 'existing past/post Languages]' in
> the vms:

I'd have to say that although some of the squiggles in the VMs are within
the bounds of "known alphabets" - which cover a lot of territory in
squiggle-space, especially when historical alternates are in question -
I'm not convinced any of them are actually intended to be characters
selected from known alphabets.  This seems obvious whether or not one is
following a base + flourish analysis.  The a's and o's and i's and c's
aren't a's, etc.  But if they are substitutions for something else, why
not the more exotic squiggles, too?

> are due to its basic _FORM_ of what i call the ~simple~ "TTT"
> or Tic-Tac-Toe design! The scribe(s?) just folded a piece of parchment
> in the 'pre described manner' and used _its FACE (BLANK FOLDED PAPER)_
> for a POINTER of one of the "9" (nine) AREAS on a folded piece of
> parchment. (THE BLANK FOLDED PAPER is of no consicience, BUT it's

(consequence)

> 'position(ing)', WITHIN _IT_ IS !!!!!!!  *T*H*E*_*K*E*Y* !!!!!!

I think that to test this hypothesis, assuming you want it tested, one
would need to know the general kind of foldings proposed.

> For those that have seen a movie called close encounters or ET or
> Contact etc... "NO NO NO NO NO!" ...

I take it the preceding is a side issue?

> you DO NOT FOLD YOUR ORIGINAL vms PAGES!!!! (duh!). "THE ~FolDInG~" is
> how the 'shapes' of the vms characters CAME TO BE (scribed/shaped) (back
> then) !

I'm clear on that now.  Matrix and pointer are separate and also distinct
from the pages of the text.  We have a matrix - a TTT arrangement - of
characters, and we have piece of blank folded paper, a sort of, well,
planchette to the matrix's ouija board, and the characters of the
manuscript guide through the matrix by selecting amoung the possible
pointings of the pointer?

> 0.... A WHOLE (say ENGLISH) Alphabet AND NUMBERS _can be fit_ within
> 1/2 its "TTT" squares ... or areas for coding & DEcoding!!!!

I'm vague on the layout of the matrix.

> O... ANY language/numbers CAN be "DOUBLED/or MIRRORED" with the
> C_gallows_C addition (thus our unexplained 'entropy'), simply add a
> c_gallows_c character OR to invert if your all ready upside down
> (flipped on 'key', simply add a NON c_gallows_c [like eva T etc..])

I think you are saying that a c*h sequence (in EVA terms) or as someone -
Jorge Stolfi? - has called it, a gallows with a bench - represents
combining pointing with an additional operation which you call doubling or
mirroring.  You turn over the pointer, perhaps?  So that the pointings are
now rotated 180 degrees?

> NOTE: ITS "SIMPLER THAN YOU THINK"... SO 'JUMP TO THE "GALLOWS"
> SECTION OF WHERE YOU WANT TO CONTINUE YOUR WORD or SENTENCE STRUCTURE'
> !

This sounds a lot like Mariana Ridderstad's idea in 9/2004, in which
gallows characters selected different subtables.

> O..... I'm pretty sure its _NOT_  (UNcoded) 'english' by the way :-(
>
> O..... ES said not only are pages 'missing', & THEY (some)[vms -
> current pages] _ARE_ also  OUT OF ORDER! Now There's another ~bummer~ :-(

I gather ES is the source of your revelations?

I gather that it is widely agreed that some of the pages are out of order.
I have seen specific reorderings proposed.

> O.....[IF: i tore out pages of say 'your bible'... the 'message' IS
> STILL THERE! but, how to READ IT if your "illiterate" in the _script_ it
> is written in ????? (old greek / hebrew / code language../etc...)

Granted.

> O..... The 'missing pages' are NOT required to use the DEcoding, as
> EVERY PAGE (almost EVERY paragraph etc can be decoded with the ONE
> simple key [ABOVE ~FOLDING~](in whatever language you choose))....  ,

Granted.  Part of any message is missing, but the remainder is
decypherable in principle in spite of that.

> you "simply" follow (gallow/_AND_/**_lower_ character shape(s)..)  your
> most "mysterious GALLOWS CHARACTERS" I always chuckle to myself when i
> read about the 'frustrations' some have here... IT IS SIMPLER THAN YOU
> THINK! (ES)....

Truthfully, I don't consider any of the characters more mysterious than
the others.  Some of them use less ink, that's all.  I admit the writer
does have a bit more fun with the gallows characters.

> ** (my lower case troubles below)
>
> X:(example): =>>> the/1st "gallow" EVA T, (1st ~crazy gallow top/left)
> f42V _AND_ the ~weirdo~ (1st gallows/ loop-de-loop) f42R ARE _""ALL THE
> SAME""_ !!!  They _all_ START at the _bottom_ (pen,menship,wise) then GO
> "UP"..  It matters NOT what you "do" UP THERE (see f42V for best example
> of ~crazy embillishments (plus))~ IF YOU (scribe) "turn Once, Twice,
> Thrice on the right, ===> it's STILL an 'eva T' <=== ... its wide open
> 'script' until you follow the _line_ DOWN (_RETURN line to bottom_)
> Home .. etc..

I tend to agree that the embellishments per se mean nothing.  An ornate t
is still a t.  I'm not so sure about enclosures within gallows.

> O.... THUS the ~FOLDING~ (& MiRrOr of another of itself 1/2'd) KEY !!
> not only supplies a 'complete' key... but actually a DOUBLE/MiRrOr key
> too/.)

Again I'm mystified at the layout of the matrix or key you propose.

I gather the key is folded in half.

> O...."THIS Manuscript" was MEANT to be CODED (very coded/per ES) from
> its conception! (hopefully i'll get little argument there/here)!

ES being again the source of your revelations?

> O....the c's,cc's and c TOP_c_ c's, show you some BACK UP on the Master
> key page... now assumed ~missing~ (but not needed to DEcode) [see 2nd
> paragraph of f42V 'second (2nd) word "cCc" etc...]

Again, I think that you mean the bench and gallows characters indicate
particular directions or paths in the key.  Specifically you take
characters of this nature to indicate changes of orientation of the
pointer or key or movement of the pointer between parts of the key.  I
suspect that you're being more specific because beyond your inspiration or
revelation leaves off at this point?

> ** lower case trouble(s)... I can only assume that the lower case
> letters ARE POINTERS TOO?, and follow the same 'matrix/areas' of the
> fold(ing)... so THERE SHOULD NOT be more that 2 sets of 'FORWARD
> pointing characters (8/9 total)... AND THERE SHOULD NOT BE MORE than 2
> sets of 'BACKward' ["cut backs/per ES"] 'reverse pointing
> characters'..(8/9 total).  "I KNOW THE GALLOWS" (1 of 12) I NEED THE LoW
> eR CASE.... c's are Either STAND ALONE ' line crossed on top (2), OR
> 3c'd (example: f42v 2nd paragraph 3rd letter AND 3c's "2nd WORD" +"o")


> final thoughts for the night here:
>
> WHY does the #2 (far upper right of a TTT board appear MORE OFTEN then
> say then the (ES START ES #1) eva T?)), seem to start _most vms_
> paragraphs? Is that a section (TTT grid) with like A,E,I,O,U,?

What character are you calling a #2?  The EVA s?

What do you mean by "a TTT board"?

> ~personally, i have to assume it's _simpler_ than that~ :-/
>
> IS 'Eva T' (folded) our missing NUMBERS (area)? like 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9
> AND is the _center_ "0" ??
>
> so the "ANSWER" will be numeric BEFORE Alphabetical ??
> as in 1234567890ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ
> -vs-
> OR in ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ1234567890
>
> I never said "'I' can DEcode this, ES said "YOU can decode this", 'I'
> said you have the ~wrong person here~!! ARrGGGggGGGgggggg

So it appears that you have a firm if somewhat obscure notion regarding
the general nature of the solution, but not an actual solution.

> (I just hope 1/2 way between where i'm at and your coming too/from
> dosn't make anyone go too ~nuts~) :-o

There's a certain amount of obsessiveness in many of us.

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