Re: VMs: Link between Phaistos Disk & VMs...!?

["Elmar Vogt" <elvogt@xxxxxxx>]

> --- Ursprüngliche Nachricht ---
> Von: Wayne Durden <wdurden@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> ...
> I am sorry to have invoked such strong emotion Elmar, but let me address
> your points...

Hi Wayne --

Actually, I didn't feel that strongly. It seems I came across more heated
that I actually was. Apologies for this.

> 
> "You have no positive indication that the Dacians wore costume as
> depicted..."
> 
> The assertion that the clothes nicely match Central Europe 15th century is
> kind of a gross generalization.  I looked carefully at the issue and while
> I
> see similarities, I also see similarities to the outfits of the Dacians on
> Trajan's column or to the descriptions of their costume and habits
> described
> by the ancient historians.  I guess since we have no Dacian photographs
> and
> it is the generally accepted view that this generic outfit is definitively
> "Central" European 15th century I am just out of luck, no?  By the way,
> which "Central Europe 15th Century" is this from?  Germany, Romania,
> Bulgaria, Turkey, France?

Burgundy, Flanders, German lower Rhine area, to be more precise.

(Turkey isn't really "Central Europe". Romania and Bulgaria are a bit of a
stretch, too.)

Eg,

http://www.costumes.org/HISTORY/racinet/2/15thcent.jpg

seems to be a match for the Sagittarius' hat as good as you can get it,
taking the small scale of the illustration in the VM into account.

The rest of the Sag' outfit can be found at:

http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/sca/work/jdb12a.jpg

(If memory serves -- I have my notes at home) pointing as well to France,
this time in the early 15th century.

As for the hats or veils the women in the trash cans are wearing, the top
picture at

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogier_Van_der_Weyden

appears to be a reasonable match. And it's around 1450, Dutch.

All details seem to consistently point to the middle of the 15th century,
somewhere along the French/German border; the Sag's crossbow would fit in
nicely as well. The castles fit also.

The handwriting style fits. The material fits. I just don't see any
compelling reason to assume anything else.

>  The hat may well be a derivation of the
> peculiar
> felt hat described by some.  The state of dress or undress in the VMS
> doesn't exactly pose the definitive clue your email implies...

I wouldn't bet my life on the "15th century, Central E." theory, but it
appears to me to be by far the most plausible. Especially, there's nothing
which would contradict it directly.

And mind you, there are two or three fully dressed persons in the VM which
are actually giving us nice samples to check against.

Of course, fashion was varied. OTOH we have plenty of illustrations and
finds from the past. If now the depictions in the VM fall into place in one
point in time and space, but wouldn't fit well anywhere else...

> ...
> 
> Sorry to have raised such skepticism with perhaps too glib an initial post
> on the issue.  

Please accept my apologies again; my intention was not to stop you, but
simply to bring the discussion to a point. I may have gotten a bit touchy
with the lot of more exotic theories around here lately, but I'm afraid that
debates on fairly unfounded, esoteric hypotheses would distract us from the
core issues -- barking up the wrong tree, and stuff.

> 
> ...
> Cheers Elmar, again sorry to have invoked such cynicism so early in the
> day.
> I hope the day grows better for you  as it passes into afternoon and
> evening.

Thanks, it's bene a good day so far already. ;-)

> 
> Happy research,
> 
> Wayne

Cheers,

   Elmar

-- 
GMX DSL = Maximale Leistung zum minimalen Preis!
2000 MB nur 2,99, Flatrate ab 4,99 Euro/Monat: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/dsl
______________________________________________________________________
To unsubscribe, send mail to majordomo@xxxxxxxxxxx with a body saying:
unsubscribe vms-list