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Re: VMs: dacian gothic script is NOT blackletter gothic script
on 7/22/05 5:10 PM, Knox Mix at knoxmix@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Hello Wayne,
> You say:
>> Unfortunately, again, although we know there was a pre-existing script from
>> historical references thereto,
> Can you cite the references?
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I have summarized a great deal of material from hard copy and internet
sources into my own writing notes and i can give you several such references
from my note pages that I suspect you can then go back to Google and
substantiate with online info:] I hadn't originally intended to post
anything to the list on the issue as it hadn't been pulled into publishable
format and considering how far away from current consensus the hypothesis
is, I suspected it should have a jam up presentation. Unfortunately,
despite a long silence, recent postings including the name of Savescu caused
me to loose my tongue, and apparently too early.
Of course, first and foremost is the most interesting account of Jordanes,
the history of the Getae from which I posted a chunk. This is a long work
covering vast sweeps of history, but the particularity with which he
describes the written belagines of Dicineus are striking. His assertions
are substantiated by more oblique accounts by ancient historians, Herodotus
and Strabon which I suspect you could google up easily. The stratification
of the Dacians into two classes one of which had writing was mentioned not
only by Jordanes, but by one or more of these ancient historians. I do know
that Dr. Savescu is probably the foremost recent publisher on the issue of
Dacian writing and you could probably satisfy the issue by googling his name
and Dacian. As far as I know, he doesn't make claims that writing like that
in the VMS is Dacian, but he is adamant and sources evidence of the
existence of a written script. I did make a copy of an article by Ariton
Vraciu from 1980 concerning the Daco-Thraco language and writing and it may
now be available online somewhere. These items put me over the convincing
line that there most certainly was Dacian writing, and then the issue is,
well where is it, and what did it look like, and why don't we have any to
look at, or do we...?
The Geography of Klaudios Ptolemaios approx 170 A.D. also described the
administrative units of the Dacian Kingdom which leaves little doubt of a
writing system. His works look to have relied upon Marinos of Tyros.
Although we have lost the history of Dio Cassius, there are multiple
references to his account of a Dacian letter written on a mushroom which
some contend is an inscription written on a mushroom shaped pot discovered
at the Dacian capital which is actually in Latin. I am not sure that is
what he referred to because the Latin inscription is only a sourcing remark
and not a letter. There are the Dacian words for the herbs cross referenced
by Dioscorides and later I believe by Alpius which were not phonetic
transliterations but which were apparently taken from Dacian writing.
There are many Dacian coins which can be viewed on the internet via Google
search which bear various writing, usually with Greek letters, but
occasionally with unknown glyphs.
Ptolomy made references to the Dacian governmental form and strongly implies
administrative record keeping. Ptolomy discussed at length the ethnic
makeup and diversity of peoples in the Dacian kingdom.
There are these interesting lead tablets thought to be a fraud, made from
gold originals allegedly, which contain Dacian names and undeciphered text
in Greek Majuscule lettering with a range of other bizarre glyphs. I have
suspended judgment on whether they are frauds because recent excavations are
purported to be in accordance with floor plans depicted on the tablets and
which could not have previously been known. I find them interesting, but I
just don't know...
Sorry, I couldn't point you to direct web links, but I have amassed so much
material now that I tend to resort generally to my own summarizing notes
until an issue becomes critical and then I go back to the filed materials
again. In any case, with these general references and the magic of Google,
you can probably find the same higher and best sources if not better ones
than I reviewed originally.
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