RE: The Hoax Theory (was: VMs: Codex Seraphinianus...?)

["Don Latham" <djl@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

IMHO, having studied a very little psyc., the VM is far too organized for
glossolalia. In fact, glossolalia would look much like noise when subjected
to analysis. If, on the other hand, a person with a strange but organized
world view, and what is commonly referred to as a "paranoid" personality,
might very well hide the strange view with encryption or code.  In that
casae, there would be no desire to pass on the knowledge, hence no written
down key. If the world view were strange enough, there would be no referent
in, say, herbals or astrology of his time.  If a code, the "codebook" would
be well hidden.
Don

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:owner-vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Gordon Rugg
Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 1:05 AM
To: vms-list@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: The Hoax Theory (was: VMs: Codex Seraphinianus...?)


Dear Dennis,

You're right; I wrote in a hurry. I encountered similar problems trying to
track down
transcripts of true glossolalia, and had the impression that it was
linguistically
impoverished; I quoted Enochian and Martian  as examples of something more
sophisticated which was still not as complex as Voynichese.

Best wishes,

Gordon

Dennis wrote:

> Gordon Rugg wrote:
> >
> > >From what I recall, the Voynichese statistics don't fit with a
glossolalia
> > explanation. In addition, the VMS syntax doesn't fit with the richest
> > examples of glossolalia (Enochian and Helene Smith's Martian) in the
> > literature - both the latter use the same syntax as their originators'
> > respective first languages.
>
>         Enochian and Martian are not what I'm calling
> glossalalia.  Enochian
> and Martian were at least pidgin languages, perhaps at
> the semantic level of
> early creoles.  Glossalalia, as I understand it, has no
> meaning.
> Enochian and Martian clearly did, as they clearly had
> well-defined vocabularies
> of words, whereas glossalalia as I understand it does
> not.
>
>         I never have been able to find transcripts of
> glossalalia; Jacques
> Guy and Dan Moonhawk Alford, list members who ought to
> know, did not know
> of any
> the last time I asked.  The best scientific description
> of glossalalia I know
> on the Web, despite the derogatory tone, is:
>
> http://www.skepticfiles.org/fw/glossola.htm
>
> Relevant here is this section:
>
> >   There are the necessary inflections and pauses and rhythmic cadences
> >   that appear to organize the verbiage into macrosegments (sentences),
> >   microsegments (words), phonemes. One theory explains the metered
vocalization
> >   as symptomatic of a rhythmical discharge of subcortical strucutres
> >   operating during a trance state. If speech is biologically
interrupted,
> >   it could appear to be a sentence pause. It would certainly be hard
> >   to catch "words" being cut off or notice illogical breaks in
expression
> >   when neither can be identified.
> >
> >   Since sentences and phrases are generally composed of smaller units
> >   called words, semantical research on microsegments might isolate a
> >   glossolalia glossary (minus the definitions). If, on the other hand,
> >   a study of glossolalia should support the hypothesis that there is
> >   no lexicon among its practitioners, a larger assumption could be made
> >   that sentences are inconceivable without words. The evidence is mixed.
>
> No evidence that is at all definite is given.
> Thus glosalalia, as I meant it and a written form of
> which Seth appears to
> have been practicing, probably has no vocabulary as
> Enochian and Martian
> clearly did.
>
>         The statistical properties of Voynichese and Seth's
> glossalalia
> are another question, and that is what interests me.
>
> Dennis
> --------------------------------
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