Re: The Hoax Theory (was: VMs: Codex Seraphinianus...?)

[Gordon Rugg <g.rugg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Dear Dennis,

You're right; I wrote in a hurry. I encountered similar problems trying to track down
transcripts of true glossolalia, and had the impression that it was linguistically
impoverished; I quoted Enochian and Martian  as examples of something more
sophisticated which was still not as complex as Voynichese.

Best wishes,

Gordon

Dennis wrote:

> Gordon Rugg wrote:
> >
> > >From what I recall, the Voynichese statistics don't fit with a glossolalia
> > explanation. In addition, the VMS syntax doesn't fit with the richest
> > examples of glossolalia (Enochian and Helene Smith's Martian) in the
> > literature - both the latter use the same syntax as their originators'
> > respective first languages.
>
>         Enochian and Martian are not what I'm calling
> glossalalia.  Enochian
> and Martian were at least pidgin languages, perhaps at
> the semantic level of
> early creoles.  Glossalalia, as I understand it, has no
> meaning.
> Enochian and Martian clearly did, as they clearly had
> well-defined vocabularies
> of words, whereas glossalalia as I understand it does
> not.
>
>         I never have been able to find transcripts of
> glossalalia; Jacques
> Guy and Dan Moonhawk Alford, list members who ought to
> know, did not know
> of any
> the last time I asked.  The best scientific description
> of glossalalia I know
> on the Web, despite the derogatory tone, is:
>
> http://www.skepticfiles.org/fw/glossola.htm
>
> Relevant here is this section:
>
> >   There are the necessary inflections and pauses and rhythmic cadences
> >   that appear to organize the verbiage into macrosegments (sentences),
> >   microsegments (words), phonemes. One theory explains the metered vocalization
> >   as symptomatic of a rhythmical discharge of subcortical strucutres
> >   operating during a trance state. If speech is biologically interrupted,
> >   it could appear to be a sentence pause. It would certainly be hard
> >   to catch "words" being cut off or notice illogical breaks in expression
> >   when neither can be identified.
> >
> >   Since sentences and phrases are generally composed of smaller units
> >   called words, semantical research on microsegments might isolate a
> >   glossolalia glossary (minus the definitions). If, on the other hand,
> >   a study of glossolalia should support the hypothesis that there is
> >   no lexicon among its practitioners, a larger assumption could be made
> >   that sentences are inconceivable without words. The evidence is mixed.
>
> No evidence that is at all definite is given.
> Thus glosalalia, as I meant it and a written form of
> which Seth appears to
> have been practicing, probably has no vocabulary as
> Enochian and Martian
> clearly did.
>
>         The statistical properties of Voynichese and Seth's
> glossalalia
> are another question, and that is what interests me.
>
> Dennis
> --------------------------------
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