Re: Sagittarius and crossbow

[Zandbergen@xxxxxxxxxxx (Rene Zandbergen)]

I wrote:

> > [...] There are two crossbows in:
> > http://www.voynich.nu/leo.gif
> > These should be interpreted as two stars belonging to
> > the constellation of Sagittarius which either rise, set
> > or culminate while this degree of the sign of Leo rises
> > (the principle of 'paranatellonta').

And Rafal:

> [...] It is, however, impossible for a star in
> Sagittarius to either rise or culminate when Leo is
> rising - at least in the plane of the ecliptic (but I must
> admit I do not know what "paranatellonta" are and thus
> may be wrong).

You are right about this. The paranatellonta are 'phenomena'
(events) that occur while a specific degree of the ecliptic
rises over the horizon. Typically, this would be another star
rising, but it may also be the culmination of a star, the setting
of a star or even (more rarely) the 'Immum Caelum', i.e. the
invisible event that a certain star is farthest below the horizon
(and North of the observer). In an old Persian text (9th or 10th C),
Abu Mashar (Albumasar) gives these phenomena for all 360 degrees. There
have been many accidents in the translation of that through the ages,
so, if the two crossbows do not refer to Immum Caelum events
of stars in Sagittarius (which would be unlikely) they may refer
to obscure mini-constellations no longer used, or be the result
of a translation error.

I have one complete list, in an Italian book which was translated
from French, and I don't know which original source it derives from.
In this I could find back many of the little drawings in the Leo
picture but, alas, not the crossbows. 
 
> There is a Persian Zodiac from c. 1560 showing two scorpions
> for Scorpio in quite a similar way (in Warren Kenton's
> _Astrology_).

Interesting!

Cheers, Rene